Well, now that we've received virused plants from every grower we've ordered from in Holland and one of 2 growers we've ordered from in the US, where do we go from here?
#1 - we could destroy all of the bare root stock we have here and start over from tissue culture.
#2 - we could hold plants that show no symptoms for 2 more years and not offer them for sale until after they have leafed out in 2007. If they still show no symptoms in 2007 and test negative for HVX in 2007 we could sell them.
#3 - we could destroy all of the inexpensive plants (retail $10 or less) and keep just the expensive plants for 2 more years.
#4 - do more testing, however based on the fact that plants can test negative until the virus is a high enough concentration this is almost a waste of money.
#5 - stop buying all bare root stock from anywhere and grow only our own plants.
It really is a dilemna. We have several thousand dollars in plant stock out there, and I know that unless the plants show the virus or give a positive test I won't get credit for them. Even if they do I might not get credit...
Times could be tough for hosta growers for a while. Hopefully we'll still be around in a few years to talk about how it all worked out.
The main thing for everyone is to continue to constantly disinfect cutting tools to prevent the spread. I would even consider not cutting down scapes and wait for all leaves to die back in the fall then rake them up, not cut them down.
Any advice for us?
Faced with a dilemna.. What to do with the bare root stock?
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flowerchild59
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Chris_W
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Hi Cheryl,
Wow, what good questions. We do have insurance to cover our inventory. I never even thought about it - always assumed it would only be used in case of fire or theft or something like that. I'll have to talk with my insurance agent. I have doubts that it would be covered, but it's worth a shot.
The state dept of agriculture says that they can't do anything until it becomes a federal action item to initiate funding. The USDA says that it is a state problem. The growers say it is the responsibility of the Ag departments and so long as the crops are certified clean (by visual inspection
) they can sell them...
I'll have to check my insurance coverage, but that sounds like something to look into for the future.
Thanks Cheryl!
Wow, what good questions. We do have insurance to cover our inventory. I never even thought about it - always assumed it would only be used in case of fire or theft or something like that. I'll have to talk with my insurance agent. I have doubts that it would be covered, but it's worth a shot.
The state dept of agriculture says that they can't do anything until it becomes a federal action item to initiate funding. The USDA says that it is a state problem. The growers say it is the responsibility of the Ag departments and so long as the crops are certified clean (by visual inspection
) they can sell them...I'll have to check my insurance coverage, but that sounds like something to look into for the future.
Thanks Cheryl!
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flowerchild59
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The crop insurance I was thinking of was similar to a peach grower who loses his crop to a frost. Talk with the ASCS office or USDA or whoever does that program. If you have a farmer nearby, they should be able to steer you in the right direction.
Also, did you see my post a little ways down regarding has anyone, ie, you or other hosta sellers, thought about a class action lawsuit against the wholesalers who are blantently selling viruses material?
Also, did you see my post a little ways down regarding has anyone, ie, you or other hosta sellers, thought about a class action lawsuit against the wholesalers who are blantently selling viruses material?
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Chris_W
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Yes, I did see that one. It is a lot to think about, that's for sure. First, the growers are not in this country, second, when you purchase they state that they will not be liable for anything greater than the price paid for the plants, and if they will only give us credit for future purchases it is basically worthless. Also, we would have the burden of proof that they did it knowingly.
I'm going to try and convince these growers to give me all of my money back for all of the bare root stock. I can't afford to wait 2+ years to see if this stuff has the virus or not. It's time to cut our losses. We threw away 75 plants today and will be pitching more tomorrow, and these are just the plants we know to have the virus.
Our sales list will be changing a lot in the future, that's for sure.
I'm going to try and convince these growers to give me all of my money back for all of the bare root stock. I can't afford to wait 2+ years to see if this stuff has the virus or not. It's time to cut our losses. We threw away 75 plants today and will be pitching more tomorrow, and these are just the plants we know to have the virus.
Our sales list will be changing a lot in the future, that's for sure.
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Garden_of_Mu
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Just my gut reaction: I'd stop importing completely and grow my own stock and new originations until some kind of controls get put in place. I realize that is a huge cut in income and investment that won't show profit for years, but what will it cost to keep importing and gambling if it will be sellable or not?
What a though situation.
Mike
What a though situation.
Mike
~ Mike
“Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don’t
matter and those who matter don’t mind.” - Theodore Geisel, aka Dr.
Seuss
“Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don’t
matter and those who matter don’t mind.” - Theodore Geisel, aka Dr.
Seuss
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Chris_W
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We were so good about not bringing in as much stock from Holland this year, but it still comes out to a lot of money. Then we have some plants in the ground from previous years from the Dutch, but luckily not that much.
It has been a tough decision, but I think it is made. Tomorrow we begin fresh. Take the loss now and we'll be done with it instead of having to worry in the future.
We have some beautiful plants out there but it just isn't worth it. I even have June Fever, one of Danny's new intros, but I think it would be best to trash it all, especially the plants from Darwin's. It would be no different than having to throw away plants that were suspected to have nematodes...
This will be an even tougher year than it already has, but then again, we might be one of the few nurseries around 2 or 3 years from now that still has clean stock, and we'll make sure we continue testing to keep it that way.
It has been a tough decision, but I think it is made. Tomorrow we begin fresh. Take the loss now and we'll be done with it instead of having to worry in the future.
We have some beautiful plants out there but it just isn't worth it. I even have June Fever, one of Danny's new intros, but I think it would be best to trash it all, especially the plants from Darwin's. It would be no different than having to throw away plants that were suspected to have nematodes...
This will be an even tougher year than it already has, but then again, we might be one of the few nurseries around 2 or 3 years from now that still has clean stock, and we'll make sure we continue testing to keep it that way.
Chris-What a tough decision you have been forced to make. I can't even imagine the impact it is having on you financially. I wish there was some other option for you, but I really admire your determination and conscientousness to providing quality plants. You must be heartbroken. There just aren't words to express how badly I feel for you and others facing this issue of HVX. The worst part is is there are still alot of good, reputable nurseries out there that don't know about this virus yet and alot of unsuspecting buyers out there snatching up these plants. Keep putting the word out Chris and my prayers are with you.
Anita
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Tundra_Queen
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Chris, I'm so sorry u have to go thru this.
You talk about the contract u have with the growers? But didn't u sign it with the understanding that their plants would be healthy and for u to be able to sell them? They are selling a product that can't be sold, so it is their fault. Do u understand what I'm saying? You only signed the contract because their produce was suppose to be sellable, u can't sell it, so the contract is void?
Debbie
You talk about the contract u have with the growers? But didn't u sign it with the understanding that their plants would be healthy and for u to be able to sell them? They are selling a product that can't be sold, so it is their fault. Do u understand what I'm saying? You only signed the contract because their produce was suppose to be sellable, u can't sell it, so the contract is void?
Debbie
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flowerchild59
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Of course the best thing that could happen would be for either:
1.) All growers just stop importing from Holland. HUGE financial losses/out of business for bad growers over there. That would get their attention. but, don't see that happening, esp. as not all nursery owners know or care about HVX.
2.) Some U.S. agency stops allowing Dutch stock into the U.S. until two or three year old stock of tested/ etc virus free. Bet that won't happen either.
So, we have to be careful and only purchase from reliable vendors, like Chris.
Tami
1.) All growers just stop importing from Holland. HUGE financial losses/out of business for bad growers over there. That would get their attention. but, don't see that happening, esp. as not all nursery owners know or care about HVX.
2.) Some U.S. agency stops allowing Dutch stock into the U.S. until two or three year old stock of tested/ etc virus free. Bet that won't happen either.
So, we have to be careful and only purchase from reliable vendors, like Chris.
Tami
My Hosta List
It is always something
It is always something
Auuu Chris
What a choise to do
But if you have the space, I would just line them up in the dirt, that way you can see what happen with them and you will have the evidence there. If you destroy them there will ( at least here) be no way you can get a refund
Pia
What a choise to do
But if you have the space, I would just line them up in the dirt, that way you can see what happen with them and you will have the evidence there. If you destroy them there will ( at least here) be no way you can get a refund
Pia
Against stupidity the gods themselves struggle in vain.
E-mail for pics hostapics@gmail.com
E-mail for pics hostapics@gmail.com
What to do?
I would seriously consider holding anything of any retail value for 2-3 years, unless the batch has a suspect plant. And of course, not cutting leaves and division with gently pulling and as little mechanical separation as possible, wearing glues and using good sterilization techinique.
Is it going to come down to tissue culture and stock on hand before HVX began to make the rounds?
Can this get into tissue culture...Breakdance? If good sanitation routines not followed?
Is it going to come down to tissue culture and stock on hand before HVX began to make the rounds?
Can this get into tissue culture...Breakdance? If good sanitation routines not followed?
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Chris_W
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Very good points DryGulch. If it has some high retail value we could isolate the plants for 2 to 3 more years. By then, if the plants are healthy, we would have some very nice, and possibly valuable clumps which would be worth virus testing.
We are already in the habit of sterilizing between every single cut and have alcohol and paper towel in the workroom and in the shed, but at the same time we have never or rarely ever divide the stock from Holland because it usually comes in small and is never big enough to divide before selling. Plus, the virused plants have failed to grow anyway. We had Diamond Tiara from 2003 that were never divided and never sold because they grew poorly. I always thought it was the soil they were in at the other place (hot and dry), but now that they have come up showing the virus this year I know why they didn't grow
I spoke with Shady Oaks on Friday and they told me that they have their own stock plants regularly virus tested before going into the lab and they practice perfect sanitation techniques in the lab. There are some other TC labs that I'm sure aren't that careful. Shady Oaks also said they regularly virus test their stock.
The good part is that because we grow 99% of the TC stock on over 2 winters before we sell it we would have a chance to watch new plants carefully. We'll be changing that to 100% now, just to play it safe.
As I mentioned to Gordy at Shady Oaks, because the virus can take 2 + years to show symptoms or test positive they must be very careful about new sports out of badly infected plants like Sum & Substance and Striptease, and isolate those sports for at least 2 years before testing to insure they are virus free. He was silent for a second after hearing that, but then did tell me that they do not allow any new, outside plants into their own private stock area. I think I gave him something to think about though.
Thanks a lot for the discussion. Sure does help to make the difficult decisions.
We are already in the habit of sterilizing between every single cut and have alcohol and paper towel in the workroom and in the shed, but at the same time we have never or rarely ever divide the stock from Holland because it usually comes in small and is never big enough to divide before selling. Plus, the virused plants have failed to grow anyway. We had Diamond Tiara from 2003 that were never divided and never sold because they grew poorly. I always thought it was the soil they were in at the other place (hot and dry), but now that they have come up showing the virus this year I know why they didn't grow
I spoke with Shady Oaks on Friday and they told me that they have their own stock plants regularly virus tested before going into the lab and they practice perfect sanitation techniques in the lab. There are some other TC labs that I'm sure aren't that careful. Shady Oaks also said they regularly virus test their stock.
The good part is that because we grow 99% of the TC stock on over 2 winters before we sell it we would have a chance to watch new plants carefully. We'll be changing that to 100% now, just to play it safe.
As I mentioned to Gordy at Shady Oaks, because the virus can take 2 + years to show symptoms or test positive they must be very careful about new sports out of badly infected plants like Sum & Substance and Striptease, and isolate those sports for at least 2 years before testing to insure they are virus free. He was silent for a second after hearing that, but then did tell me that they do not allow any new, outside plants into their own private stock area. I think I gave him something to think about though.
Thanks a lot for the discussion. Sure does help to make the difficult decisions.
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Hosta Lady of Anoka
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Striptease
Striptease was probably the one the item that raised Gordy's eyebrows...I don't think it was developed at Shady Oaks, so they had to buy their tissue to culture from somewhere.
I have to wonder at the ratio of Striptease that are not infected. This weekend I toured a garden with a Striptease that had to be at least 3 years old. The woman is quite the collector and hers looked to be in wonderful health and huge.
On the other hand, two out of three of the Striptease I have seen available retail were obviously infected. The third looked very healthy, as did every other hosta at that retail center.
The first time I saw an obviously infected Striptease I did not have the courage to say anything. Seeing that this is getting to be a huge problem, the second place I saw it, I did pull the plant manager aside and discuss HVX with her. She promptly pulled all her Striptease and said she would investigate. (I think all of them showed signs fairly clearly.) She said she had never heard of HVX...I told her of the hostalibrary.org and told her to check it out for herself.
There is very little awareness. This woman is a very active, knowledgeable gardener/plants person (however, probably not a horticulturalist).
I have to wonder at the ratio of Striptease that are not infected. This weekend I toured a garden with a Striptease that had to be at least 3 years old. The woman is quite the collector and hers looked to be in wonderful health and huge.
On the other hand, two out of three of the Striptease I have seen available retail were obviously infected. The third looked very healthy, as did every other hosta at that retail center.
The first time I saw an obviously infected Striptease I did not have the courage to say anything. Seeing that this is getting to be a huge problem, the second place I saw it, I did pull the plant manager aside and discuss HVX with her. She promptly pulled all her Striptease and said she would investigate. (I think all of them showed signs fairly clearly.) She said she had never heard of HVX...I told her of the hostalibrary.org and told her to check it out for herself.
There is very little awareness. This woman is a very active, knowledgeable gardener/plants person (however, probably not a horticulturalist).
Chris, I'm so very sorry to hear this. If there is anything we can do to help you, please don't hesitate to ask. Every single place I've been in the town where I work (Pontiac) has virused hostas. None of them know about it and all of them have shocked looks on their faces when I tell them.
"A friend is someone who knows the song of your soul and sings it back to you when you have forgotten the words."
PeggyC's Hosta List
PeggyC's Hosta List
I feel terrible for you Chris!!
I have print outs, that I will keep in my car to hand out.....I gave one to the little nursery that sets up every year in Menards parking lot.....They have just a handful of hosta's there. More at their regular/bigger nursery. They looked okay to me. I talked to them about it and gave them the infor....They new nothing about it either....I have to get to the other big places I know, and I will hit them next week.
I have print outs, that I will keep in my car to hand out.....I gave one to the little nursery that sets up every year in Menards parking lot.....They have just a handful of hosta's there. More at their regular/bigger nursery. They looked okay to me. I talked to them about it and gave them the infor....They new nothing about it either....I have to get to the other big places I know, and I will hit them next week.