Shade or lack there of.

[ogrefcf]

I have a 40' x 3' area in the back of my yard where I planted quite a few big Hostas: Guardian Angel, Earth Angel, Sagae, Komoda, S&S, Liberty and Wu. The area is back against the neighbors fence. It had trees hanging over that shaded them from the noon sun. Well we got some new neighbors last year and the day before my order from Chris came he cut all the trees down along the fence line. Several Hostas from my order were going on the fence line with no room any where else. I'm a little worried about the amount of sun they will be receiving. Now, it's been really rainy and shady here the last few weeks so I haven't been able to see how much sun they will get, but my guess is 8+ hours with direct noon sun. Any ideas with out moving them, or could they possibly make it with mulch, bark and heavy watering?

My main idea now is a Pergola/Trellis. I am making one for the entrance to our garden and could do one over the Hostas and add shade cloth if needed. Here are the plans I drew up quick. A pretty simple one with a single pole and 2x4's for the top.



View looking down. You can see how the trees used to be down at the end where some still hang over.



Another view,





Any input is appricated, thanks! Also forgive the droopy Hosta's they were just planted from Chris and are getting their perk back.

[Chris_W]

Hi Owen,

I would think that the fence would provide a lot of shade as it is and if they are shaded in the afternoon then they should do fine. Will depend on the heat and how dry it gets in the summer for you.

The little trellis/pergola plan looks nice. When building a pergola for shade you will want the top boards to be perpendicular to the path of the sun and you will want to stand the boards on ends, not on their sides. The closer you put the top boards the more of a shadow they will throw. For example, we have a pergola over our nursery with 2 x 6's spaced 22" apart and they throw a lot more shade than you would ever imagine. Even at high noon they bend the light a little and break up the intensity of the sun, but in morning and evening they provide complete shade under them, without any fabric. We use these for our sun plants but if I had spaced them closer they would be great for hostas. The problem you have here, though, is that a small 3' wide pergola might not throw the shadow exactly where you want it....

But back to my original thought, that fence might actually give you enough shade for these. Keep them deeply watered and let them dry out a little between the times you water to encourage deep roots and they might fend for themselves just fine. And I'm glad to hear that the hostas perked up for you that you got from us.

Good luck!

Chris

[jgh]

I might be missing it - did you tell us what the orientation is? Does the fence run North-South or East-West... and which side are the hostas on. That would tell us a lot more about what kind of sun you are dealing with.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, Springville is in the Salt Lake area and you're at about 4600' elevation... the sun there is a lot stronger than the sun in Michigan or Minnesota. Let us know the orientation and we can make better suggestions about shading your plants...

[Phil_and_Gayle]

A nice trick to hold you over until you can construct something more permanent, is to grab some lawn chairs and place them over each hosta to shade them during the hottest part of the day. This may look a little strange, but the chairs are easily moved to achieve the correct shade and if you have cats they love having an elevated place to lay in the garden!

[ogrefcf]

The fence runs east west and the Hostas are on the north side. It's been so cloudy here I haven't been able to see how much, if any of the sun is blocked since the trees have been cut. Yes we are about 5000' elavation, so it might be a factor. The area gets great morning sun, just worried about mid day. I was going to space 2x4 on top about every 4" and lay them on the wide side to block the mid day sun more and possibly grow some type of vine plant or grapes on it. It would still get a good 2-4 hours of morning sun and some evening if I block most the mid day. Thanks for the chair idea I will be using it for the Hosta's I just planted from chris. We are jumping from 60's and cloudy/rain to 80's with sun.

Chris, also thanks for the order. The Hosta's were outstanding and thanks for letting me make a late change and the bonus Hosta. I kno where all my Hosta's are cooming from.

[redcrx]

The north side of an east west fence would give you morning sun and shade by noon. You are at the same latitude that I am and I have plants that are fine in that sun. But as mentioned above there are other factors.

[jgh]

The calculation here is relatively simple...

first you go to a site like http://www.srrb.noaa.gov/highlights/sunrise/azel.html where NOAA gives the sun elevation angles for different cities... the example, Boulder, Co, has basically the same latitude as Salt Lake City and will work fine for your calculations. You see that the sun is higher above the horizon as the summer goes on

(at noon, in degrees)
May 1 65
June 1 72
July 1 73
Aug 1 68

Those are the noon positions... you can change the time to see what the angles are at 10 AMand that should be virtually identical at 2 PM

Now... you just need to use an online trigonometric function calculator. If your fence is 6' tall, the shadow cast by the fence at noon will be 6 x tan (90 - sun angle). So even at its highest, in midsummer, with the sun at about 73 degrees above the horizon, the shadow should be 6(tan 17) = 6(.3057) or roughly 2' .

Wasn't that simple?!

So your plants should have good shade for a while. The first 2' of the bed should be in shadow from a 6' fence for most of the summer at noon and the whole bed should be shaded for much of the day.

Hostas will adjust to the brightness they are planted in. Many folks have noted planting hostas in a sunnier area and watching them burn quite a bit, only to come back the next year, maybe with somewhat altered coloration, more sun tolerant than before. I've even got a deep blue corrugated hosta in full midday sun (I wanted it to grow faster so I can divide it for sharing) and, even though it loses its wax and becomes greener than I'd like, it grows great and shows little damage from the sun until late summer. It burned up bad its first year in that spot, then seemed to adjust.

As they grow, in a couple of or few years, they will grow outside that 3' border and you'll be faced with a decision. Of course, by that time the big ones will also be piling up against the fence and you'll be looking at building a deeper bed with a shade cover... maybe you can get rid of the kids so all the toys can disappear Even if selling the kids is not an alternative... they do grow up and swingsets become obsolete, making it possible to sell the equipment - more money to buy hostas with!

[ViolaAnn]

Thanks for the idea about a lawn chair. I have Outhouse Delight and a seedling of OD, both of which emerge white and both of which usually get fried before they develop green colouring.

[jgh]

We've done something similar... an old end table or somesuch from a garage sale... set it just to the south of the plant, put a pot of something on top... looks like garden art and casts a shadow on the vulnerable plant...

[ogrefcf]

Wow, thanks jgh. No way I would have been able to even remotely do that calculation. Love the idea of making the bed wider. That play toy is about done anyways, so maybe I will. Hopefully we will have sun tomorrow so I can find out for sure. Wife likes the idea of a pergola for the yard though so I might not be getting out of it. I'll just tell her I have to make the beds bigger if thats the case. Thanks again everyone!

[ogrefcf]

Okay, sick of me yet? Sun poped out and got some quick pics.

To the east, not so bad.



Then as you go west toward the end, a bit more sun.



and



Oh and wife just said I could make the bed bigger. I know what I am doing tomorrow! Oh yeah, pics taken about 1:15.

[thy]

Okay some one have already confused you with weird spin of the mind calculations and the man who recently got a wound in the a$$ ar now taking the toys from kids

... WARNING.... - leave this forum while it is still possible

If you one reason or an other are still here: Why not Build the pergola wide enough and tall enough from the fence to bend down a bit towards the house - that way you can see the clematis flowers and when you do the bed wider, why not plant the hostas in zig zag, it will bring more energy into the bed and alove yoou to plant closer than in a row and still keep the distance. It will also allow you to plant some smaller hostas in the holes... talking about holes- what a bout a small bench up against the fence.

Did i tell you to run

[jgh]

That's a little smaller shadow than I predicted - I'll bet that's not the noon sun we are seeing? (Actually, with Daylight Savings Time, "High Noon" is 1 PM...) I was guessing on the height of the fence at 6', so if its less that also contributes.

Pergola is a great idea... but I am going to be very honest with you - please don't take this as negative, more like if we were standing in your yard looking at the garden and spitballing ideas...

Most folks under-engineer their first one if they aren't working from plans. As we start to calculate the cost of lumber, we often start to scrimp - with unsatisfactory results. (I speak from experience - and I am a slow learner!) For example, a lot of people try using treated lattice over the tops. It is notorious for warping, and the warp is never quite even from one piece to another, making for a ramshackle look.

The same is true for 2x4s laid flat... they will warp... and guaranteed they will warp different amounts and make an untidy cover. As Chris suggested, the top boards, whatever dimension, should be laid on edge to minimize warping. An alternative is a boxed top with shade cloth.

I really wonder how long the two-post design will/would support that much weight without twisting and uneveness setting in. The lumber nowadays seems to be marginally cured and treated, so even though your design is attractive, I'm just not sure it would hold up...

I think your pergola is too small for the expense and trouble of building it... You really should consider building the structure for the garden you hope to have in the future rather than the one you have now... For example, if you are considering making the beds wider... say, to five feet... your very frugal 3' 3" (10' 2x4 cut into 3 pieces...) will end up leaving a strip of sun along the front of the bed with all the same problems you have now. I'd be looking at 4 posts instead of two, and at least a 4' wide top (8' 2x4s are usually the cheapest treated lumber available per foot. If 10 footers are reasonable, I'd go to 5' in a minute.. Well... actually, I'd be looking at at least 6 posts to do the full length of the bed with a boxed top structure, 6 foot roof, and I'd be looking at getting rid of the 90 degree corners of the bed by doing a 45 degree angle where the East-West and North-South beds meet... and and and...

Pia warned you about this forum... you might do best to run away right now!


One thing to remember is that a pergola top made of wood will shade the garden during the warm months - but also during the spring months when you are trying to warm up the hostas and get them going. You could very easily shorten your hosta season with a solid top. That is one advantage of using a shade cloth cover - you can wait until June to put it up, getting the garden off to a faster start. I guess a roof made of solid members could be designed to be removable and stored...

I've heard people suggest that any roof provides some protection from inclement weather (we've had our gardens shattered by hail 4 of the last 6 years... had light hail yesterday morning, but damage was minimal...) but that shade cloth provides more protection from hail due to the smaller spaces. Hail will actually bounce off the top of a shade shelter and fly out into surrounding areas...

One more thought... if you like to take pictures of your hostas, you will find the solid board pergola roof a challenge. Our eyes adjust somewhat to the zebra stripe effect produced - but the camera doesn't. Only on a totally overcast day will the light be even enough to take photos. I personally like the look of the slatted roofs - but I don't like the look of plants under those roofs. I find the striped sun-and-shadow look the opposite of restful... which is feeling hostas give me. My only shade shelter uses shade cloth for that reason.

[ogrefcf]

jgh, thanks a ton for all the advice. I agree if I make the beds bigger, which I need to with the Hosta's I have planted there. The design I have won't work. I guess I can do shade cloth. I have access to quite a bit for free. The problem with making the way I would want my dream garden, is I don't know how long I will be in this house. The wife already wants a bigger one, so I am hesitant to make a really nice one. I guess it does add value and a lot of curb appeal, but I swear I am taking all my Hostas with me when I move!

I think I will make the beds bigger and see how they handle the sun for now. If they tolerate it, it can only be good for em. I need to figure something out so I can get em moved away from the fence next year so they have plenty of room to grow.