Question about pruning rhododendhron and azalea

Henrik · Post by **Henrik** » Jul 10, 2006 6:46 am

Hi!

I have been a frequent user on both gardenweb and helpfulgardener,a nd my good friend Herb suggested this forum as a nice place to talk japanese gardening.
Hi to you all!!

I will post some pics from my garden, but my digi-cam doesnt work... so I guess I have to buy a new one first.

My first question is... In many books(for example the one by Marc P Keane) and in Georges garden I can see nicely pruned shrubs (in the books mostly azalea and rhododendhron). How is it possible to make these shrubs so dense? When I look at the speciments in my garden, they are very "skinny" and not dense at all.

I realize that time is an important factor here. But I will post some pics of the current status of the shrubs, and a "vision"... and then perhaps we can find a way to realize that

kind regards... I will be back with pics
Henrik

Henrik · Post by **Henrik** » Jul 10, 2006 4:11 pm

Hi!

As promised now I have my camera fixed and I managed to take some photos.

Please look at these pics and feel free to give your comments on how I can enhance them further to make it more pleasing, authentic... I like all kinds of critics

Entrance, I tried to make this into a sukiya-mon style gate. I feel however that something is missing. I think the panels to the left and right should be bamboo instead of plain wood... And im not that satisfied with the doors either. And there is no signpost, lantern or anything that welcome the visitor... Please suggest improvements, perhaps u have visited other japanese gardens?

tsukubai... But the tsukubai is hardly visible anymore due to the growth of the ferns. Perhaps I should have selected a smaller speciment? I definetly need to maintain this scene!! You can see hosta and pieris and phyllostachus bissetti bamboo... and an acer +palmatum. Comments?

Pond... this is what you see as you enter the gates. The pond is in the middle with no obvious paths leading to and from it... And in the back Im currently building the bamboo fence that will separate my garden from a very steep hill leading down to the forrest. I cant use this hill, because the property at the foot of it is not mine.... So I decided to add a rear focal point. Please note that I will add LOTS of schrubs (mostly evergreens and azalea) in the back to hide the fence... Right now it is somewhat disturbing because of the newly installed bamboo canes. I think they will "mature" within a year or two.

pond from another view

I built a roof over my deck, and I tried to keep it as simple as possible. The horrible trellis in the back is only a temporary installment. What I want to recreate here is a "taste of asia"... when you are sitting here you should feel like you are sitting on a deck on a japanese villa. This atmosphere is hard to recreate, and I am definely no decorator. So any advice you have I will greatly accept. I would like to have some wall paintings, and some paper lanterns on the roof... and perhaps a sliding door where the trellis is now... what do you think????

Well, I have more pics from my garden, but these are the main elemensts that I need advice on. The reason Im asking you all is, that if you spend your entire life in the same place it is easy to get blind... it is always refreshing with a new set of eyes and another opinion. I know some of you are handy with photoshop, please feel free to use my pics and add whatever elements you feel are needed!!!

thanks for now!
Henrik

George Nesfield · Post by **George Nesfield** » Jul 10, 2006 4:53 pm

Hi Henrik,
Welcome my friend to the Japanese garden forum,my shrubs look dense because most of them are conifers ie Junipers, Sawara Cypress and various other varieties including Cupressus Macrocarpa the only azalaeas I have apart from one are bonsai.
incidently I have seen your posts on the helpfull gardener forum.
George.
This link is to my Cupressus Macrocarpa it is the one that is shaped in the middle the four light green pads are all one plant which I have shaped.
http://koi-z-are-us.20m.com/my_japanese_garden.htm

Herb · Post by **Herb** » Jul 11, 2006 1:01 am

I think the panels next to your entrance gate look OK. But if you feel something's missing, I suggest you might consider adding a plant in a pot. Here's one possibility.

Herb

Henrik · Post by **Henrik** » Jul 11, 2006 4:57 am

Hi Herb and George!

George: Yeah I guess cornifers and cypress are much easier to prune... so you suggest that I shouldnt care about trying to make round balls out of rhododendhron and azalea, as can be seen in japanese garden books?
Yes, I have been to gardenweb 2, however I like this style of forum much better!

Herb: Thank you for your wonderful ideas!! I have many pots, but that nice pine is nowhere to be found hehe... And I am sooo lousy when it comes to training pines. It would be fun to learn though. My nursery has a lovely supply of pinus nigra.

What u think of the rear bamboo fence? SHould it be taller, shorter, should there be more variations in the design, or should it be more uniform? What types of plants do u suggest I plant in front of it...

/Henrik

George Nesfield · Post by **George Nesfield** » Jul 11, 2006 5:08 am

Hi Henrik,
Or even,
I arn't as clever as Herb with his photo shop.
George.

Henrik · Post by **Henrik** » Jul 11, 2006 10:05 am

George, if I purchase a pinus nigra, and post a picture of it here... perhaps u can then give me some basic tips on how to train it? Perhaps show with a picture which branshess to cut and how to bend it?

I have read lots of japanese garden books which explain very briefly how to train a pine, but those pics are somewhat idealistic....

kind regards
Henrik

George Nesfield · Post by **George Nesfield** » Jul 11, 2006 3:34 pm

Hi Henrik,
Thats a good idea buy one and put a photo on here and I will see what I can do I did a similair thing on one of the Japanese koi forums for someone with a bonsai who did not know which way to go with it.
George.

Herb · Post by **Herb** » Jul 11, 2006 8:46 pm

Henrik,

You asked - "What u think of the rear bamboo fence? Should it be taller, shorter, should there be more variations in the design, or should it be more uniform? What types of plants do u suggest I plant in front of it...?"

I 'd prefer it if the fence were a little lower & somewhat less conspicuous - e.g. a sleeve fence - and moreover, one that you see only parts of, peeping out from behind various shrubs. That, I think, would merge your garden view into the forest rather than having an abrupt, artificial cut-off between the two.

I have no particular species of shrubs in mind for growing in front of the fence because I don't know what will thrive in your climate: I envisage a variety of shapes, colours and sizes, preferably evergreens..

The effect I have in mind is (something) like the attached picture.

Herb

Henrik · Post by **Henrik** » Jul 12, 2006 5:41 pm

Hi!

Herb your fence look good. However, since I already put a lot of effort in the existing one, I will try and stick with that design. I think, once I place some plants in front of it (as was my plan from the very beginning) it will look very good!!

The only sad part is that I have to wait a few years befor the tiny plants will grow enough to give the desired effect!

Herb, as I also mentioned in the email, my plan is to incorporate another pond and a small bridge in my garden. I have a few ideas of my own, but I will take a better picture and post it here so we can elaborate a bit.

Meanwhile, George, here is a pic of my pinus nigra, i placed it here temporarily

Make the most of it

And let me know if u need more pics/ views.. its rather uniform in its shape.

kind regards
Henrik
ps if u wonder why i all of a sudded is posting this much, my vacation is coming up in a week... and I want to have at least some partial designs completed before getting muddy and dirty...

ds

George Nesfield · Post by **George Nesfield** » Jul 13, 2006 4:28 pm

Hi Henrik,
Is this pine going to stay in the ground or are you thinking of making it a bonsai, and can you post a clearer photo showing the branches.
George.

Henrik · Post by **Henrik** » Jul 15, 2006 1:56 pm

Hi!

My intent is to keep it in the ground, possibly as a backdrop view in my garden where the bamboo fence is.

Here are some ne wpics, I hope these work better. Its a s good as I can make it...

kind regards
Henrik

Daren · Post by **Daren** » Jul 18, 2006 11:24 am

a design

Henrik · Post by **Henrik** » Jul 18, 2006 7:20 pm

Hi!

Nice to meet you in such a beautiful concept picture. Too bad I spent quite a few bucks in laying stones on the entire driveway and path (as can be seen in the original picture)

If it was today, I would definetly have done it like this as it is a MUCH more welcoming and pleasant view. I love the way you incorporeated the lantern into the view.

I wish I saw this pic 2 years ago, then I would never have spent the bucks on the stone.

I have spent the day expsoing where to find granite gravel (as I suspect you used in this scene) and it is VERY hard to find. I visisted a local quarry which had 12 differnt kinds of gravel, but none of them was like this color. The one we have has a blueish tint to it, not toe white/grey tint as this have. I suspect the rock here in southern part of sweden has a lot of "gnejs" in it, and other kinds of blueish rocks (sorry but I dont know their english names).

I will continue in my quest to find this kind of gravel as I need it for another project I have, a karesansui area.

kind regards
Henrik

Daren · Post by **Daren** » Jul 19, 2006 4:51 am

When I started out, I too had a tough time finding things like granite gravel. Decent rocks were also nowhere to be found. I looked everywhere with no luck. Then I searched on the internet & found a place that supplied the perfect gravel. www.buildajapanesegarden.com To my amazement, they were situated a short drive from where I live. It's a wonderland of Japanese garden supplies, everything you need all in one place.
On the sunject of azaleas, I find them incredibly dificult plants. they always thin out & becaome leggy when I try to grow them. I stick to box or conifer for a tighter mound.

whis4ey · Post by **whis4ey** » Jul 19, 2006 7:55 am

Henrik ... can you show a close up of your 'bamboo' fence? It might give some ideas
Over here, although granite would be plentiful, it is difficult to get a fine enough grit to use for a dry garden. I used marble chippings, which, although too white when laid, quite quickly became the colour that is ideal for such a project. You might like to consider this, and builders stock the correct size (at least in Ireland they do

)
I made a boundary fence for my own garden as in the attached picture.
Also a pic of my dry garden showing the colour of the gravel

George Nesfield · Post by **George Nesfield** » Jul 19, 2006 3:54 pm

Hi Henrik,
I use Limestone chippings for my Zen garden which are just the right colour not to white more of a grey/white
As for your pine I think I would wire the branches out straight for a start instead of them reaching for the sky.
George.

Henrik · Post by **Henrik** » Jul 19, 2006 6:41 pm

Hi!

Thanks for the nice pictures! It is always inspiring to see.

george: So you suggest that I should make the branches completly horizontal instead of as they are now pointing up?

I guess I can accomplish that by using horizontal bamboo canes which I tie to the branch?

The tree is an austran pine, which has this way of growing... Here in sweden we mostly have pinus sylvestris whihc has blueisn tint to the needles. The pinus nigra has amore greenish tint which I prefer more

Ok, I will try your idea... what do you think should be step 2?

Oh, as an additional question, please look at this picture:

The pine "branch" itself is composed of two parts as I can see it the green thing which is the branch itself... and then the red area is where all the needles are concentrated. and then finally the mint green which is the bud...

How should one think when approaching the pruning of such a tree? I mean, perhaps this tree cant be pruned at all?

Nevertheless, I have faith in your abilities George, your garden is an excellent withness fo your abilities.

When I have finished adding soil to my rear bamboo fence I will post a pic. Right now it looks like crap.

Kind regards
Henrik

George Nesfield · Post by **George Nesfield** » Jul 20, 2006 7:12 am

Hi Henrik,
Yes, I would wire the branches horizontal or as you suggest use bamboo canes ,right to the end of the branch and you can control the length of the branches by prunning out the buds at the end of the branch if you want the branch to grow longer leave the bud in if you are happy with the length of the branch nip the lead bud out at the end of the branch, also if you want to bend the trunk or leave it straight let me know .
you can see my pinus parviflora and the shaped trunk at this link,
http://koi-z-are-us.20m.com/my_japanese_style_pine.htm
George

Henrik · Post by **Henrik** » Aug 04, 2006 12:35 pm

Hi sorry for not writing... I have been ill lately + I have been away on vacation trip (sadly not to japan).

I have straighten out the branches as you suggested using bamboo canes. It looks quite wierd. I really want to give it a "wind trained" look like the classical bonsai, where all the needles and buds look like fluffy clouds

The objective is to have 2 or 3 of these pines to form the back view in my garden. My bamboo fence is finally finished now... now its time to start adding the plants and stones.

PLease suggest how to bend the branches of my pine and to achieve the fluffy could like look. I really should bend the main trunk in an S shape too???

kind regards
henrik - who wants to learn the art of pine pruning