Gravel for karensansui?

Henrik · Post by **Henrik** » Aug 27, 2006 4:17 pm

Im in the process of making an unused corner of my garden into a karensansui. The area itself is not big, about 3x1.5 m

Im planning to add three stones on a moss bed plus I will use my existing bamboo as the "forrest" which I also will cover in moss on the ground. Anyway, the tricky part I encountered was to find the correct gravel. I have not yet reached my destination. I talked to the local quarry and they have the correct gravel (the kind u need to make wave patterns) but the color is all wrong!!!

All the gravels they have are either blue or red tinted. They claim this all they have... and Im starting to get desperate. I never thought it was this tricky to find the correct gravel. The one I want is the same as can be seen on herbs ryaonji pictures. I guess its granite?

Today when I was shopping I found this odd creation. A swedish garden supply company are selling what they call "japanese mix", its a mix of black and white stones and they claim it is perfect for japanese gardens.

I have never seen this black/white mix in a japanese garden before

Anyone that has managed to arrange a karensansui garden/area? Any maintenance issues? Which kind of moss/groundcover did u use around the stones?

I will post some pics as soon as I find the gravel Im looking for... blueish gravel just wont cut it...

/henrik

George Nesfield · Post by **George Nesfield** » Aug 27, 2006 4:40 pm

Hi Henrik,
If they have black and white ask if they have just white, it must be mixed somewhere, I use limestone chippings and the best size for raking is 8 to 10mm.
I use Saxafrage and Soleirolia Soleirolii for my ground cover because it grows really well in my area, I have tried Moss but it just died as the climate here dosn't suit it..This photo is the back of my small pond which shows how I have used them.

George.

whis4ey · Post by **whis4ey** » Aug 28, 2006 6:00 am

George
The perfection of your garden never ceases to amaze me

Daren · Post by **Daren** » Aug 28, 2006 6:54 am

I get my perfect keresansui gravel, ( avaliable in three grain sizes) from www.buildajapanesegarden.com
they are in the uk, but speaking to them last week, they said that they often ship materials all around the world. I don't know what the cost would be for you, but if you can't get it locally it may be worth investigating.

Henrik · Post by **Henrik** » Aug 29, 2006 4:10 pm

Hi!

I have checked that site and I believe it will be too costly for me to order it. I have to find it locally somewhere. This kind of gravel

I can find anywhere, but I dont like the blue color of it.. I want either grey or close to white.

I will continue to look for it!!

/Henrik

whis4ey · Post by **whis4ey** » Aug 29, 2006 5:06 pm

If you live in the States I believe the common thing to use is turkey grit. 10 millimetre is about the right size although 8 would be fine

Mr. Hanami · Post by **Mr. Hanami** » Aug 29, 2006 5:56 pm

I found these bags at Home Depot. I can't seem to find too much in my area. Will this work?

I did find 3/8 pea stone that comes in earth tones and by the yard. This stuff would be cheaper but I don't think it will look true karensansui.

Hanami

whis4ey · Post by **whis4ey** » Aug 30, 2006 4:45 am

It is difficult to see from a photograph but those marble chippings look way too large to me. It would be impossible to rake if they are too big.
Do builders merchants in your area not sell fine marble or limestone chippings for pebbledashing walls of houses? That is what I have used for my own garden. I started off with limestone chippings (better colour) but they darkened. I then used marble, which at first were too white, but which have now darkened to about the right colour. I know George uses the limestone chippings

George Nesfield · Post by **George Nesfield** » Aug 30, 2006 3:21 pm

Hi,
As Sam says 8 to 10mm is best for raking any larger and you will have problems .
George.

Mr. Hanami · Post by **Mr. Hanami** » Aug 30, 2006 10:54 pm

Are these too large?

I'll look into limestone chippings. I've got to go to the stoneyard to see if they have it.

Hanami

George Nesfield · Post by **George Nesfield** » Aug 31, 2006 3:04 pm

Hi,
If they are 8 to 10mm they will be perfect for raking.
George.

whis4ey · Post by **whis4ey** » Aug 31, 2006 4:44 pm

They look too big to me Hanami
What size are they?

Mr. Hanami · Post by **Mr. Hanami** » Aug 31, 2006 9:48 pm

whis4ey-
I'm not sure in mm but in inches they are anywhere between 1/4 - 1/2 inch in length. The 1/2 inch ones are long and thin shards. BTW, I love your Japanese garden. It's beautiful!

Hanami

whis4ey · Post by **whis4ey** » Sep 01, 2006 4:43 am

I think 10 mm is something close to 1/4 inch ... just over in fact
So .. your 1/4 inch would be great. When you get to 1/2 inch you are getting too big
1/8 to 1/4 inch would be ideal
1/4 to 1/2 is pushing your luck a little
Try a builders yard for pebble dashing. I think you would be better to wait until you get what you want rather than spend money on something that isn't quite right and then regret it for ever

Mr. Hanami · Post by **Mr. Hanami** » Sep 01, 2006 7:49 am

whis4ey-

Yeah...I agree.

Thanks,
Hanami

Henrik · Post by **Henrik** » Sep 23, 2006 4:43 pm

Hi!

Now I finally had time to make some work on my small karensansui. However, there are a few things I need your input/thoughts on how to refine and make better.

1) How to balance the scene in regard to the shrubs? There are many shrubs on the right corner but none on the middle/left. And the stones are a bit small to compete against the big shrubs. I was thinking of removing one or two of the smaller shrubs...

2) How to make a nice translation from the gravel to the dirt? Should I try to use moss, as this cornere is a bit shady?

3) And finally, the stone grouping itself... the one on the picture is a temporary one, and IM not pleased with it. I was thinking about adding a small "island" in the middle and use moss or other groundcover almost like the one seen in ryoan-ji. What do you think?

Perhaps anyone handy with photoshop wanna make a suggestion? As always it helps a lot

Please note I dont want to crowd this scene with stuff, this is a view that is seen by many people that walk past my garden... I was thinking about adding a small misaki lantern.. but Im not sure about it hmm , what do you think?

/henrik

George Nesfield · Post by **George Nesfield** » Sep 24, 2006 8:13 am

Hi Henrik,
First I would suggest a bamboo screen of some kind at the side of your house, and the fence behind your shrubs I would cut down to the height of the cross piece in the middle so that it is not so obtrusive,and your rocks you must either use one large one, or a minimum of three, one large one a little smaller and one flat piece these will represent Heaven, Man and Earth.
George.

Daren · Post by **Daren** » Sep 25, 2006 5:44 am

Hi Henrik,
I think you definately need some moss, or moss substitute around your stone. They are, I think, too small & too similar in colour to the gravel. ( glad to see you got some). The rocks almost disapear into their surrounding. A green island, a la Ryoanji, is definately what's needed. If you don't have rocks big enough to make a statement, then boost them with a raised moss hummock. I'm experimenting with mossy lookalikes, for areas that don't get a lot of moisture I'm trying creeping thyme & camomile treneague. The thyme especially looks good.

Daren · Post by **Daren** » Sep 25, 2006 5:48 am

oh, & to ease the transition from gravel to earth, maybe try some cobbles to cover all the exposed earth between the shrubs. That will also help keep down weeds & provide a moisture retaining mulch.

Daren · Post by **Daren** » Sep 25, 2006 6:17 am

my image attatchments don't always work, but here goes....