maple trouble

Daren · Post by **Daren** » Jun 02, 2008 5:12 am

Hi,
I have a norway maple that's about seven years old, stands about four metres tall in ground that, every year, gets waterlogged in the winter months. It's been perfectly happy so far, in 2006 it put out a new shoot from the base that grew two metres in one year!
However, this year it began to bud in spring & then stopped in it's tracks. It still only has the tiniest of leaf buds when it should be in full leaf.
I did a scratch on the bark & it's healthy looking reen underneath.
This is really bizarre. Hs anyone ever heard of a maple going into hibernation during the summer?

whis4ey · Post by **whis4ey** » Jun 02, 2008 8:29 am

Maples do not like soil that is overly wet
If your tree is in soil that is waterlogged every year, it has been slowly dying

Daren · Post by **Daren** » Jun 02, 2008 8:32 am

even the Norway Maple?
It was on a list of trees recommended for a wet site.
It's done well so far.

George Nesfield · Post by **George Nesfield** » Jun 02, 2008 12:10 pm

Hi Darren,
I think I would go along with Sam's suggestions, because to my knowledge Maples do not like to get to much water they like the soil moist BUT NOT WET, I would suggest you dig it up with a large soil ball around the roots and place it somewhere a bit drier.
George.

whis4ey · Post by **whis4ey** » Jun 02, 2008 12:49 pm

It is not doing too well at the moment Daren

All my little books suggest that maples in general do not like wet
Van Gelderen in Maples for gardens says that
'very wet situations should be avoided'
although he suggests that Acer rubrum and Acer saccharum are more tolerant of wetter conditions
(the norway maple is Acer platanoides)

Daren · Post by **Daren** » Jun 02, 2008 1:17 pm

I have an acer rubrum close to the norway maple.
maybe I should pull out the norway & put another rubrum in it's place.
It's odd how the norway's demise wasn't a slow decline, it was doing well then suddenly quit.

whis4ey · Post by **whis4ey** » Jun 02, 2008 4:21 pm

Trees can sometimes take quite a long time to 'die', or, as in this case, to show that all is not well
It is the 'waterlogging' that is the problem, and will not be a great environment for any tree except maybe a Swamp Cypress
Van Gelderen is not suggesting that a Rubrum would tolerate fully a waterlogged site
Another point, of course, is that this year we have had probably the driest May for some considerable time. Possibly the change from very wet to very dry was too much for the poor tree, and it succumbed to the stress
It might, of course, recover?

Daren · Post by **Daren** » Jun 03, 2008 4:46 am

I did entertain the idea of a swamp cypress. But I don't like the thought of having 'knees' appear all over the garden. Bit of a mowing/tripping hazard. It may not be wet enough to cause knees, but it's a bit of a gamble.

George Nesfield · Post by **George Nesfield** » Jun 03, 2008 8:42 am

Hi Darren,
I have a swamp cypress , you can control them by prunning ,they are a beautiful tree with the beautifull green during the growing season and the foxy red in the fall and winter.mine is at the back of my small pond and I keep itto a reasonable size with my prunners.and mine as never thrown out any knees.I would suggest give it a go.
George.

Daren · Post by **Daren** » Jun 03, 2008 8:58 am

I really like the look of these cypress & I'm extreemly tempted. How wet is your site? Mine has standing water on the surface all winter so I'm guessing it's a big knee risk. It's also right on the boundry with my neighbours property, so if it did put up knees they would go into his garden.

George Nesfield · Post by **George Nesfield** » Jun 03, 2008 6:07 pm

Hi Darren,
Mine is in a reasonably normal situation not wet not dry.
George.

Mr. Hanami · Post by **Mr. Hanami** » Jun 05, 2008 7:13 pm

Hi Daren,
I have a wet spot too, and I was thinking of planting a Dawn Redwood. What do you think of those?

Daren · Post by **Daren** » Jun 06, 2008 4:36 am

Now that looks a fine tree. I was running out of options, but this may be a contender. I wonder how easy it is to contol it's size?

whis4ey · Post by **whis4ey** » Jun 06, 2008 4:50 am

The Dawn Redwood will become a massive tree but it will take some time
I have had mine maybe 8 years now
http://www.fujiyamagarden.com/DawnRedwood.html

George Nesfield · Post by **George Nesfield** » Jun 06, 2008 6:41 am

Hi Sam,
But surely if you wish it can be kept to a reasonable size by prunning,
I have a sequoia the giant redwood which I bought a couple of years ago (another bargain) for £10.00 and at the moment I have it still in its container that it came in it stands about four foot and has some lovely cones on it, I intend to keep this at a reasonable size and most probably try to cloud prune it, I will take a photo later and post it in the forum.
I also have a metasaquoia but mine is sempervirens addpressa this is the photo of me cloud prunning it.
George.

Daren · Post by **Daren** » Jun 06, 2008 6:49 am

Pruning will keep the height down, but do you know if this would this also prevent the trunk from expanding in girth?
My spot is up againsd a fence that divides my garden from my neighbour's. I don't want the tree to expend & push over the fence in twenty year's time. I know I could allow space by planting a distance from the fence, but space is an issue, I don't have it.

whis4ey · Post by **whis4ey** » Jun 06, 2008 7:33 am

Probably George, but does continual pruning not eventually harm a tree? Maybe not

By the way ... you are quite mad to go up there at your young age

George Nesfield · Post by **George Nesfield** » Jun 06, 2008 3:45 pm

Hi Sam ,
No prunning revitalises the tree just look at some of the bonsai which are 100's of years old.
George.

Daren · Post by **Daren** » Jun 07, 2008 9:57 am

Thanks for the advice chaps.
I have come to a decision. I'm going for the swamp cypress.
I've done some further reading. There are two theories about what causes the knees. One is that the permanently submerged tree is trying to gain more oxygen by putting roots up above water level.
This doesn't make much sense because all trees have roots that are oxygen deprived no matter if they are standing in dry soil or waterlogged mud. Water actually contains more oxygen than dry soil.
Putting a little root up above water level isn't going to gain much more oxgen compared to what's being absorbed by the massive top growth.
The second theory is that the knees are used to stabalize the tree in watery conditions where the tree is in loose mud. This is also why the base flares, to lower the centre of gravity. The swamp cypress has a reputaion of being hurricane resitant.
This latter theory sounds more plausible to me.
I have heavy clay soil, so I don't think looseness is an issue, so hopefully it won't knee.