A little different from SAR training

Old earth dog · Post by **Old earth dog** » Feb 13, 2005 12:36 pm

I've shown pics of Thunder doing his SAR training. This is the control that comes with excellent breeding and rock steady temperment. He's only wanting to get his toy (the sleeve) from Steve...

honest!
The first pic is me bracing against Thunder's leash while Steve walks up to him. At this point, I haven't given him any copmmand.

Old earth dog · Post by **Old earth dog** » Feb 13, 2005 12:40 pm

When I give the command "Revier" which basically means bark till Steve "presents" the sleeve. Thunder can't touch the sleeve till Steve moves it. Note the slack in the leash now.

Old earth dog · Post by **Old earth dog** » Feb 13, 2005 12:42 pm

Steve then moves and Thunder gets to get his sleeve.

Old earth dog · Post by **Old earth dog** » Feb 13, 2005 12:49 pm

This is one called an attention bite. Thunder sits at my side and can't go to Tom till he (Thunder looks me in the eye) I hope this blows up enough cause the look in Thunder's eyes is begging me to go "play " with Tom's sleeve. He can't move till he looks at me and ONLY then, will I give him a command. This keeps him from making the decision on his own.

I'm such a control freak

Old earth dog · Post by **Old earth dog** » Feb 13, 2005 1:00 pm

I give the "packen" command and have to do a little dance to keep from tangling in the leash

Old earth dog · Post by **Old earth dog** » Feb 13, 2005 1:05 pm

The reward.

As soon as Thunder hits Tom, Tom will slip the sleeve off and Thunder will bring it back to me. At this level of training, it has absolutely NOTHING to do with aggression. It's all about teaching control.

Old earth dog · Post by **Old earth dog** » Feb 13, 2005 1:12 pm

At Thunders age, the stick in Tom's hand is GENTLY slapped on Thunders shoulders. But the time he matures, the "stick hit" will be programed into him as nothing more than me slapping Thunders sides as you would when you pet or praise your dog. If he was hit hard now, it would stress him and cause an avoidance or bring out defence. That's one of the major differences in teaching schutzhund with motivational methods rather than the old crap

of just smacking the dog till he runs off or gets p!$$ed. Thunder loves this GAME.

Annie · Post by **Annie** » Feb 13, 2005 1:18 pm

In that second picture LOOK AT HIS TEETH

I would not want to make him mad LOL.
Have seen this kind of training on tv. Sometimes don't the dog actually knock the person over while trying to get the sleeve from them?
I don't think I would want to be the one who is wearing that sleeve.

I awlays wondered if the dog ever misses the target and actually gets the person.

wishiwere · Post by **wishiwere** » Feb 13, 2005 1:39 pm

Great pics and explanations!

Question, If thunder has to look you in the eye and hear the command to act, then what if you just say the word, he doesn't react?

Love those eyes! And my what big teeth grandma has! WHEWeeeeeeee!

Thanks for sharing his training with us, it is interesting.

PeggyC · Post by **PeggyC** » Feb 13, 2005 7:31 pm

Impressive OED! He's already such a good dog with al the training you've given him and in these pictures, you can just see all the potential he has to become a great dog.

Patrushka · Post by **Patrushka** » Feb 13, 2005 7:53 pm

Wow! Great pics OED! Thunder is such a handsome boy. Thanks for bringing us along to the training session.

That looks like what Jasmine did to me the other night. I was trying to get her off the bed so I could straighten the comforter. She didn't apply any pressure though. When I scolded her she ran and jumped into bed with DS#3.

newtohosta-no more · Post by **newtohosta-no more** » Feb 13, 2005 11:05 pm

Loved hearing about the steps in the training process and seeing the pics! Thunder is such an impressive animal and obviously smart too!

Old earth dog · Post by **Old earth dog** » Feb 13, 2005 11:10 pm

Annie, the teeth are an illusion. Snap a pic of any dog while he's barking excitedly and you'll get what you see if the timing is right (luck). Thunder has never shown his teeth at anyone and I wouldn't tolerate it. The helpers do occasionally get knocked over. During what is called the courage bite, the dog and helper face off from two ends of the field. Sometimes as long as a football field. At the judges command, the helper starts running towards the dog, yelling and waiving his stick. The dog is sent by the handler from the other end. When they meet in the center it's quite spectacular. This is one of the few times the dog can get hurt if the helper is inexpierienced at catching on the sleeve. His timing has to be perfect and if he doesn't give with the impact, the dog can be jammed up.
Jane, the eye contact is another control. The dog is basically driving the handler to let him take a bite. Because Thunder's training is pure sport, if two helpers, one with a sleeve, and one without were on the field, and the one without the sleeve attacked me, and I gave the bite command, Thunder would go for the helper with the sleeve. NOT the one attacking me. This is sport. It has nothing to do with personel protection. If I gave Thuundser a bite command walking down a crowded street, he would probably run from person to person looking for the sleeve. There are many police K9s that were originally trained in schutzhund that shouldn't be on the street. They don't have the true fighting instincts to change over into what's called a civil bite. That's a bite on someone with no protective gear. that's also not to say that there aren't some very serious schutzhund dogs out there. We have a few in the club that would just as soon spit out the sleeve and redirect on the helper. In an actual trial the helper NEVER slips the sleeve. Ya just don't know what the dog is like that your on the field with. I started testing Thunder twice a week from the time he was 3 weeks old till I got him at 6 weeks old. He has a rock solid temperment and is what is called a clear headed dog. No conflicts about what he's doing. A good police K9 has what they call a sharp temperment. That means he will react to stimulus with aggression. When Thunder matures at 18-24 months, he may very well have strong protective instincts but because of his training and clear head, I'll never have to worry about him being over reactive. DW calls him our lamb in wolf's clothing.

LucyGoose · Post by **LucyGoose** » Feb 13, 2005 11:15 pm

Wow......Very impressive!!!!

bro!!

Snow · Post by **Snow** » Feb 13, 2005 11:24 pm

It's great work you do - and it looks like it can be fun at times

Great pictures!

Tundra_Queen · Post by **Tundra_Queen** » Feb 14, 2005 2:32 am

OED, this is all very interesting. When Thunder has the person's arm plus sleeve in his mouth,doesn't the pressure of the bite hurt the person?

Debbie

patsue53 · Post by **patsue53** » Feb 14, 2005 2:40 am

Awesome dog and awesome training! Thanks OED!

mommatina · Post by **mommatina** » Feb 14, 2005 9:20 am

All I can say is WOW!!!! Thanks for the training session... I loved it.... Thunder is so beautiful.... I love those eyes...

Old earth dog · Post by **Old earth dog** » Feb 14, 2005 11:13 pm

Debbie, the sleeves have different degrees of hardness depending on the level of training but a simple answer to your question is yes. Sometimes I do the catching and there are a few dogs at the club that really put the pressure on. I've had my share of bruses. The weaker nerved dogs will loosen their grip, or start what's called piano biting. They also have a shallow grip. Most of these dogs never get to a competition level. In competition, a calm, full grip is ideal. It's the molars in the back of the jaw that do the crushing. The grip is as much the genetics of the dog as it is the training. Look at the pic of Thunder on Tom's sleeve. He has it all the way back in his mouth. That's perefect.........of course.

Deb118 · Post by **Deb118** » Feb 15, 2005 1:12 pm

That is one totally, AWESOME... HANDSOME dog!!