My cuddlepuppy Zeke seems to be turning into a watchdog - we have never had this happen before. We have always had registered Black Labs, and they were always sooo happy to see visitors they just weren’t watchdogs. Our new dog Zeke is half registered Black Lab, 1/4 Great Dane, 1/8 wolf, 1/8 German shepherd. Looks just like a black lab except for the size thing - he is about 120-130 lbs. And he has a tiny white “soul patch” under his bottom lip and a small white spot behind each forepaw. He just turned 3 this fall and is just starting to mature. He has always had the lab temprement and loves people, especially kids...he just loves kids and is so gentle with them. He is very well trained - he minds everyone he knows and you don‘t have to tell him twice.
Just in the past couple weeks, he is starting to bark when someone comes to the house door and growling at folks when they go up to his kennel to visit him. Basically, everyone who comes to see us stops first at his kennel to see him (he’s lovable). This growling really caught us by surprise - none of our other dogs have ever growled at anything! Really shocked us, especially when he did it to my sister Diana - she is like an alternate mom to him. He is fine, no growling and just loves them to death if he is outside (not in his kennel). One of my brothers we hardly ever see and his wife just moved here last week. They stopped by, Zeke barked, I told him it was “all right” (our signal for everything is all right), told him it was my brother and I was going to let them in and soothing him. I opened the door and thought Zeke was going to try to eat them - not seriously, but he wasn’t going to let them in and kept pushing me away from the door! Had him by the collar, had to put my brother & his wife outside, get puppy in ‘our’ lazyboy and hold him with his choke collar and arms wrapped around his chest...then yell for brother/wife to come back in. Was holding, soothing Zeke, telling him it was all right, I wanted to let them in. Held him and talked to brother/wife, then had them come over one at a time and let him sniff their hands, then he calmed right down and was soon playing with them. When my brother and wife left, had them come back a couple times to try to teach the dog, but he knew it was them, even through the closed door and was just happy to see them!
Is there a best or standard way to deal with a dog that wants to be a watchdog? Didn’t do any formal training, just what we have always done to end up with an extremely well-behaved, social (very social) cuddlepuppy. Come, sit, stay, down, find it (whether his ball, me or Jeff), get it, drop it, that’s enough, leave it alone, get out of there, kennel (to go into his kennel), OK (to let him out of his kennel, the house or a vehicle once the door is open, etc.), let’s go in the house, let’s go cuddle in our chair, schooch over (honest, its hard to fit 180 lb. woman and a 120 lb. dog in a La-Z-Boy). Even taught him to stay out of the garden beds. But I want to do this right...especially since he is big enough to do serious damage to folks. Would like him to keep barking when someone comes to the door, and would like him to eat or delay bad guys until I can get my hands on a gun...but what is the best way to teach him to let folks in when I want to, without scaring them or blunting his need to protect me? Tried “sit and stay”, but he really seems to want to protect me from strangers now and it is overriding his training. Don’t want to be too stern with him, as I am afraid he will take it to mean he isn’t supposed to bark/protect anymore. Its hard because we are semi-hermits, and don’t get hardly any “strangers” stopping by to practice on, and apparently he smells and recognizes the “regulars” even with the door closed . And its really hard to get strangers to volunteer for this duty, especially when they hear or see him (hehe). Is it ethical to lure in those church groups that go door to door, just to train my dog about strangers (hehe)?
Need help quick, folks! This dog learns fast, and I want to teach him properly...especially before garden season hits and people come to tour the gardens! Last year I only had to worry about him drowning folks in drool...
wanda
Cuddlepuppy to attack dog...Need training hints, please?
Moderator: Chris_W
Two biggies come to my mind right away. Wanda. First and foremost, make sure you are not soothing, comforting, saying it's alright, etc. when he is barking, growling, or otherwise acting in a manner that you do not want. By doing so, you are rewarding the unwanted behavior.
Second, you might want to try to get him "out and about" a bit more. I know it's hard (I'm a deep woods hermit, too), but the more he experiences, the more confident and reliable he will be. I'll leave the training tips to OED, but the labs I've worked with have generally taken more time to mature than a lot of other breeds. I suspect his change of behavior is his way of telling you he's a big dog now.
Second, you might want to try to get him "out and about" a bit more. I know it's hard (I'm a deep woods hermit, too), but the more he experiences, the more confident and reliable he will be. I'll leave the training tips to OED, but the labs I've worked with have generally taken more time to mature than a lot of other breeds. I suspect his change of behavior is his way of telling you he's a big dog now.
jd in nh
janet's list
It is well to remember that the entire universe, with one trifling exception, is composed of others. --John Andrew Holmes
janet's list
It is well to remember that the entire universe, with one trifling exception, is composed of others. --John Andrew Holmes
Thanks, Janet! I was soothing him and letting him know it was “all right”, that is was someone we knew, before I even opened the steel door. It was when I opened the door and he saw them that he decided he wasn’t going to let them in, growled and tried to push open the screen door, I told him “NO” and “GET IN YOUR CHAIR”. He obeyed instantly, quit growling and went to our chair and stayed there while I got his training collar on. Made him sit and stay with me while they came in, and he didn’t bark or growl, but just was real tense (had my arms around him just in case, but he didn’t try). Once they were safely in, then I soothed him again reminding him he knew them, and brother/wife talked to him and let him sniff their hands and then he was ok and wanted to play with them. Then he didn’t bark at all when someone came for the next two days...and I had to coax him back into it. The case with my brother/wife was fully my fault, as I didn’t realize he didn’t remember them before I opened the door. Its always the trainers fault, with dogs or kids.
Since he started this barking/protecting (which we want him to continue), we have been praising him “Good Dog”, then checking out the window to see if someone is there or if its just the cats on the porch making noise. He only barks once or twice, just until he gets our attention and we get up to see what he is barking about (he never barks just for fun). If someone is at the door, we have been telling him “Its All Right” and who it is (soothing him), then opening the steel door, but not the screen door, so he can see its someone he knows, or so he can see its just the cats. We have to open the door so he can see, otherwise he will quietly sit and stare intently at the door until you do (up to an hour -at least that’s as long as I went before giving in and opening the door so he could see for himself. He is not distractable). Been doing exactly the same things consistently, and that has been working with folks he knows (no other “strangers” have been by to practice on). I want him to bark and protect me, and this dog is so smart I am afraid if I tell him a strict “NO” again when he acts to protect me and doesn’t want to let in a stranger, he will quit barking/protecting altogether - like he did when I made him let in my brother & SIL. He is like that, you generally only have to tell him once, and he remembers. Never tried to teach a dog that sometimes its ok to do something (like let in a stranger), but not at other times. Especially as I NEVER open the door to any strangers - I just talk out the window to them and send them away. Consistency is easy, (ie. no jumping on people)...but I think this area involving judgement calls is going to be a little trickier! Is it a matter of needing a specific ‘rite’ to introduce him to ‘good strangers’ so he will know they are ok and will let them in? I really don’t want to blunt his protective instincts - I am sleeping so much better with him in the house! He is only being protective when he is in his kennel, or in the house...if we are outside playing, anyone can come with no problem, no barking - just ‘come play with me’. I imagine this will change, too.
Really want to get this sorted out before I take him out and about in public...the law really doesn’t like you practicing this sort of thing on the general public (hehe).
wanda
Since he started this barking/protecting (which we want him to continue), we have been praising him “Good Dog”, then checking out the window to see if someone is there or if its just the cats on the porch making noise. He only barks once or twice, just until he gets our attention and we get up to see what he is barking about (he never barks just for fun). If someone is at the door, we have been telling him “Its All Right” and who it is (soothing him), then opening the steel door, but not the screen door, so he can see its someone he knows, or so he can see its just the cats. We have to open the door so he can see, otherwise he will quietly sit and stare intently at the door until you do (up to an hour -at least that’s as long as I went before giving in and opening the door so he could see for himself. He is not distractable). Been doing exactly the same things consistently, and that has been working with folks he knows (no other “strangers” have been by to practice on). I want him to bark and protect me, and this dog is so smart I am afraid if I tell him a strict “NO” again when he acts to protect me and doesn’t want to let in a stranger, he will quit barking/protecting altogether - like he did when I made him let in my brother & SIL. He is like that, you generally only have to tell him once, and he remembers. Never tried to teach a dog that sometimes its ok to do something (like let in a stranger), but not at other times. Especially as I NEVER open the door to any strangers - I just talk out the window to them and send them away. Consistency is easy, (ie. no jumping on people)...but I think this area involving judgement calls is going to be a little trickier! Is it a matter of needing a specific ‘rite’ to introduce him to ‘good strangers’ so he will know they are ok and will let them in? I really don’t want to blunt his protective instincts - I am sleeping so much better with him in the house! He is only being protective when he is in his kennel, or in the house...if we are outside playing, anyone can come with no problem, no barking - just ‘come play with me’. I imagine this will change, too.
Really want to get this sorted out before I take him out and about in public...the law really doesn’t like you practicing this sort of thing on the general public (hehe).
wanda
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Wanda, I'm seeing a few problem areas here. #1, 1/8 wolf. I not a fan of any type of wolf cross. Their fight or flight instinct is always right under the surface. I would stop the "good boy" encouragement when you dog is alerting on someone outside. It sounds like your dogs natural instincts overide any need for encouragement and this will only make matters worse. The dogs training collar should be on before people come to the door. Because of the size of the dog, I would toss the training collar and go with a pinch collar. They look terrible but they work fantastic. Basically they are power sterring for dogs. You need to train the dog to have a good, reliable down stay first. When that is reliable, the dog should be put on a down stay when people come to the house. Don't let the dog get up for at least 5-10 mins after the people come in to the house. After this time passes, the dog will have gathered in the peoples scent and will also have calmed down enough to greet them. Training a dog for personel protection is an EXTREAMLY serious undertaking and shouldn't be done by anyone but a professional. Unfortunately, this is an area of dog training that is flooded with idioits that profess to know what they are doing and will only create problems with the dog. They train the dog only in defence and will do nothing but creat a monster for you. In addition, your insurance company will drop you like you've got the plague when they find you have a protection trained dog. At three years old, your dog should have been out in the public much more often. Even dogs with good, natural protection instincts ned to be sociolized. That doesn't mean he needs to play with everybody, but he has to accept them without causing problems. If at all possible, the dog should be taken to obedience classes. At 3yrs old he's now a mature dog. From your description,I can't stress enough that this dog needs to be controlled. True protection is not needed with a 120 lb dog that is already showing protective instincts. Any fool that will keep comming with that in front of him is crazy or on drugs. One more thing. EVERYONE overestimates their dogs ability to be a true manstopper. Most dogs will bite to defend themselves but if a "bad guy" is willing to take that bite and fight enough to hurt the dog, 99% of ALL dogs will bail out and run. People should use their dogs for a deterrent but to expecting them to seriously protect them is a huge mistake. It's an etreamly rare dog that will truely defend it's owner in the face of someone that is willing to punish the dog. My own GSD is from extreamly strong background. His mother is direct Czech Border Patrol breeding and his father is a Slavic Police dog. Even with his Schutzhund training, I would never depend on him to protect me. Threaten an advisary, yes, but not actually go in for a fight. This takes a dog that,#1, is hand picked from a pup to do protection work and #2, it requires SERIOUS, QUALIFYED training.
Sorry if Iv'e been rambling here but you could be headed for serious problems if you don't get him under control.
One side of me says I hope I haven't scared you with what I've said. The other side of me hopes I did because of the seriousness of having a large, overly protective dog. Please don't be afraid to ask questions but know that I wont pull any punches with my answers. This is to serious.
Sorry if Iv'e been rambling here but you could be headed for serious problems if you don't get him under control.
One side of me says I hope I haven't scared you with what I've said. The other side of me hopes I did because of the seriousness of having a large, overly protective dog. Please don't be afraid to ask questions but know that I wont pull any punches with my answers. This is to serious.
Thanks, OED! I knew it was serious stuff, thats why I asked for direction right away. Can’t do anything about his dab of wolf at this point - we are way too tightly bonded!
I have no intention whatsoever of trying to turn him into a real protection dog - wouldn’t take one of those as a gift! Just wanted to know how to keep him barking to alert us to someones presence outside the house, without letting it go any further than that. We have never ended up with a dog that would bark at any time (with 3 dogs in 20 yrs.), and figured it must be something we were unknowingly doing to prevent.
He aced obedience training and we have gone well beyond that (hence his instantly obeying me in the heat of the moment when my brother came by). I wouldn‘t have a dog that wasn’t trained very well - especially one this big. I wasn’t working much when we got him, so had plenty of time to devote to his (and my) training. That is the main reason we got a dog at that time - we knew I would have enough time to see that he was well trained. I have complete faith that he will instantly obey me, as he has proved himself over and over during the past 3 yrs. We can open his kennel door when the yard is full of running little kids screaming for him to come out and play, and he will not leave the kennel until he receives the “OK” command. That has always been our “acid test” of reliability. He is in my sight and under my control at all times when we are outside playing, or locked in his kennel - moreso for his own protection, up to this point. He is my responsibility, and I would just die if something happened to him (or someone else) through negligence on my part.
Is a pinch collar the same as a choke collar? We have always used a choke collar for training. Will make sure he is under down and stay before I let in anyone else he may not know. I don’t foresee any problem keeping him under control...just hope he will continue using his superior hearing to alert me to someone’s presence outside! That will give me just enough time to get my hands on a gun, if necessary.
Thanks so much!
wanda
I have no intention whatsoever of trying to turn him into a real protection dog - wouldn’t take one of those as a gift! Just wanted to know how to keep him barking to alert us to someones presence outside the house, without letting it go any further than that. We have never ended up with a dog that would bark at any time (with 3 dogs in 20 yrs.), and figured it must be something we were unknowingly doing to prevent.
He aced obedience training and we have gone well beyond that (hence his instantly obeying me in the heat of the moment when my brother came by). I wouldn‘t have a dog that wasn’t trained very well - especially one this big. I wasn’t working much when we got him, so had plenty of time to devote to his (and my) training. That is the main reason we got a dog at that time - we knew I would have enough time to see that he was well trained. I have complete faith that he will instantly obey me, as he has proved himself over and over during the past 3 yrs. We can open his kennel door when the yard is full of running little kids screaming for him to come out and play, and he will not leave the kennel until he receives the “OK” command. That has always been our “acid test” of reliability. He is in my sight and under my control at all times when we are outside playing, or locked in his kennel - moreso for his own protection, up to this point. He is my responsibility, and I would just die if something happened to him (or someone else) through negligence on my part.
Is a pinch collar the same as a choke collar? We have always used a choke collar for training. Will make sure he is under down and stay before I let in anyone else he may not know. I don’t foresee any problem keeping him under control...just hope he will continue using his superior hearing to alert me to someone’s presence outside! That will give me just enough time to get my hands on a gun, if necessary.
Thanks so much!
wanda