Info needed on lactating felines!!!!

lazygardner · Post by **lazygardner** » Sep 24, 2005 5:23 am

I know I have to wait 14 days before spaying Mamma kitty after her milk is dried up; but what I don't know is, how long does it take for her milk to dry up after I separate her from her babies? Does the 14 days start as soon as they are separated, while she still has milk available? Do I have to keep her separated for the whole 14 days? Can she be with her kittens after the 14 days but before I get her in for the surgery?

I hate keeping her separated from them, and not just because I feel bad for her. She cries and paws at the door incessantly, which is a little heartbreaking. But she is going above and beyond. She actually tore the trim off of the door jam!

The babies act like it is no big deal (of course, they won't have to repair the wood trim) but Mamma is truly suffering. I can only assume it is mostly emotion or instinct that is driving her behavior, but I also have to believe that she is aching a bit from not being allowed to nurse.

Any answers anyone? I sure could use the advice.

jay dee · Post by **jay dee** » Sep 24, 2005 6:22 am

Please understand I know zero/zip about lactating felines, but in dogs, you must watch for mastitis during the weaning process. Check the teat area and make sure they are not swollen and hard. In dogs, you can put warm compresses on them to soften them up and then either relieve the pressure by hand or let the puppies help empty them and then seperate again. Your kitty may be telling you she needs help. Reducing her food and removing the kitties should start the reduction of milk.

jay dee

lazygardner · Post by **lazygardner** » Sep 24, 2005 6:40 am

Thank you jay dee. I will check her when I get home. I hope she doesn't have mastitis, as I am going to take all four kittens and two of my ole kitties in to be weighed, so I can get the right amount of medication for toxidia (sp). Although I have treated one baby and am currently treating Mamma, I just learned I may as well treat them all, or they may be passing the parasite around to all of them.

Also, Mamma has a weepy eye. It doesn't seem very bad so I am waiting and hoping it gets better on its own. I am a bit cash poor and trouble wealthy right now.

Snow · Post by **Snow** » Sep 24, 2005 10:53 am

Is there a reason you have to get her spayed while the kittens are so young and still nursing?

lazygardner · Post by **lazygardner** » Sep 24, 2005 11:16 am

Snow- They have to be at least five weeks old now and they may be six or seven weeks. But my biggest concern is that she will go into heat again while she is still nursing. A friend has been urging me pretty hard to separate them for this reason. I guess she has had kitties tear screens out of windows to get out where the wild males are, and she has also had them be extremely vocal. Otherwise, I would wait. I love to see the way Mamma cares for her babies. I do have to admit though, they eat hard dry food, drink plenty of water and don't seem to mind being separated from Mamma in the least. Oh, and my ankles can attest to the excellent functioning of their teeth! Anyway, I'd welcome your opinion on this.

Jay Dee- Excellent call! Some of her breasts are a bit hard, so I tried the warm damp compress, and I swear she said thank you in english.

I also let her be with her son, William The Wailer. He is named after a TV character who always tried to act tough and bad, but who was a poet at heart and was tightly tied to his Mother's apron strings. Anyway, now Mamma seems to be resting comfortably, and is even ignoring Zsa Zsa's rude remarks.

jay dee · Post by **jay dee** » Sep 24, 2005 11:55 am

Glad to be able to help. It is usually the back teats that fill up and get hard. It has to hurt like the devil when this happens.

Keep applying the compresses every few hours and let the Wailer empty them slightly. Reduced food should drastically cut down the milk production.

jay dee

Snow · Post by **Snow** » Sep 25, 2005 11:14 am

Ahhhhhhh - well that's interesting! I can see your concern. I assumed nursing protected a female cat from conception at least partially

. I dont blame you for wanting to get her spayed asap!

patsue53 · Post by **patsue53** » Sep 26, 2005 7:57 pm

I may be opening myself up to criticism here but that's okay.

I made the mistake of waiting for Sylvie to stop nursing before I got her spayed after her first litter. Pretty soon we had a 2nd litter.

As soon as the kittens were eating solid food I took her to be spayed. I did NOT wait for the kittens to be weaned or for her milk to dry up and the vet said it was not necessary. There is a slightly higher risk of bleeding during surgery but not enough to keep him from doing it. She was home the next day and those kittens immediately began nursing again! You'd never have known she left them. My advise is to get her spayed now and stop torturing yourself and her!

Linda P · Post by **Linda P** » Sep 26, 2005 10:16 pm

I have done the same thing, Patsue. It didn't bother her one bit to go back to nursing when she came home, and she actually seemed to enjoy it. I suppose it was the endorphins that the nursing kitties stimulate that helped her to feel better? Anyway, there didn't seem to be a bit of trauma. The vet said it would be okay. She was only gone for the better part of 2 days, the kitties were nearly done nursing anyway, and she soon weaned them after that.
Linda P

lazygardner · Post by **lazygardner** » Sep 27, 2005 3:00 am

OOOOOh are you in trou-ble!!!!!!!

Just kidding!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I appreciate the information and do intend to use it.
I don't know if my vet will do the spaying before 14days after weaning. It surely would be nice for her to be able to continue nursing after spaying. What I read somewhere is that the danger is milk leaking into the abdomen. I guess the milk would cause an infection if the mammaries are accidentally cut. I'll have to get with the male vet and see what he says. The female vet is new, and I like her, but she may be a slight touch overcautious.

Now that I am using the warm compresses and letting the kittens nurse just a little, Mamma does seem a lot more comfortable. However, I suspect a new problem. I think Mamma isn't letting her room mate Zsa Zsa use the litter box!!!!

I'll know this morning when I get home. I suppose I can put a second litter box up high on top of the computer desk (over my head) where Zsa Zsa can get to it without getting onto the floor. Zsa Zsa is spending all of her time up at the top of the cat tree. She already has separate bowls of food and water up top.

I have run out of rooms! My old kitties have my bedroom and the babies have the livingroom/kitchen/diningroom and bathroom. The bathroom is just too small for anyone to live in and is the only other room that can be closed off. I am trying to keep the babies out of the senior cat food in my bedroom and away from Mamma in Zsa Zsa's room. The seniors are too scared of Mamma to even realize that she is no longer in the living room so at least they haven't gotten into the kitten food. (luckily) Zsa Zsa is paranoid and wants to be top cat, so she doesn't get along with any of the others and marks if she is let out of her room. Mamma also wants control of the biggest area she can get and will literally attack the other adult cats. Little Bit is offended that anyone would dare to be as cute as her, so she growls and hisses at the kittens and even swats them if they get too close to her. Nicki is terrified of Mamma yet wants to take Zsa Zsa's room over for herself, and she marks if she gets in there. Nicki also wants to boss Zippy around, but he is my boyfriend and will only take so much baloney from Nicki. Zippy is nearly as good a mommy as Mamma is, except he can't nurse, and when the babies get too rambunctious he hisses at them, only his individual hiss lasts less than two seconds. It took me awhile to figure out that he WAS hissing!

ON top of all this, I have to treat them all for coccidea which Mamma and at least one of the babies brought in, which means scooping as frequently as possible, cleaning up any diarrhea spots with bleach water, and giving liquid and pill medicine to each of the nine kitties each day. *sigh* I am tired. Thank you all for letting me rant a bit. I feel better now.

janet · Post by **janet** » Sep 28, 2005 11:57 pm

Lily, the cat I fostered for my vets, was spayed when the kits were six weeks old and still nursing (by their choice, not necessity). This was entirely the vets decision, btw. She was kept overnight and when she came back, the only instructions were to prevent her from jumping, if possible (yeah, right). The kits continued to nurse off and on until they went to new homes at eight weeks. I'm with patsue and Linda on this one, as are both my vets. I wouldn't wait.

lazygardner · Post by **lazygardner** » Sep 29, 2005 2:35 pm

I discussed it with one of the female vets again, and she was pretty adamant; the risk of infection is just too great, because the milk ducts might be cut letting milk into the wound. I guess I will just have to wait, but I appreciate all the advice, and I bet that infection happens very rarely.

IN the meantime, I am about at my wits end. Zippy the Zulu Warrior is showing signs of bladder infection, so I have him isolated now, so I can get a urine sample.

Thank you everyone for the suggestions and support.