I remember Chris saying something about this one being a dud the second season that you have it , but then coming up gangbusters the following year. Well, mine is a super dud right now. I'm just wondering whether it is such a dud that I should replant it elsewhere.
It came back with two "stalks": each one is about 1" tall. One has 2 leaves, the other 1 leaf. I have had good luck with other toadlillies (hirta and tojen are getting quite large now, and Emperor and Moonlight Treasure are slowly growing to a respectable size in their second season).
So, is this one that I need to dig and replant in some better soil? It is just feet away from two other toadlillies that are performing quite nicely. What gives?
Tricyrtis Samurai Question
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Chris_W
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- USDA Zone: 9
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Hi Homer,
I'm growing several different toad lilies now and this past winter really tested them out as far as zone 5 winter hardiness goes...
I had a really good clump of Samurai growing and anything in the top 6 to 8" of soil died. However, there are really deep sprouts growing now and it does look like the colony will reestablish itself.
I will mulch heavily with compost this fall.
Gilt Edge also took a hit, but it was moved late in the season. Again, sprouts are just now coming back from very deep under the ground and the colony should grow back fine.
Emperor was planted in the spring of 2004, grew well, bloomed, but we have not seen any sign of life and can't find any living roots either...
The others, based on zone 5 winters:
Tricolor - one season overwintered several in pots and had 100% success. Also saw roots laying out on the ground survive the winter. This one is very cold hardy but is not summer heat tolerant, often going heat dormant.
White Towers - excellent growth, no problems in winter or summer.
Empress - very vigorous - again no problems.
Dark Beauty - develops huge rhizomes, very hardy but we've had some slightly burned leaves in summer.
Lightning Strike - no winter hardiness problems but the foliage is highly variable, sometimes sprouts solid green, pale flowers are not very showy.
Hatatogisa - no winter hardiness problems and nice clean foliage.
Maculata - basically a short growing hirta type. I think this is the same as some called Myazaki Hybrids. No problems, sets lots of viable seed and we have some crosses between this and Empress with purple stems, hairy leaves, deep spotted flowers on short stalks.
New ones started this year are Raspberry Mousse, Blue Wonder, Moonlight Treasure.
The only plant that I've completely lost (other than possibly Emperor) is Tojen. Might not have liked where it was planted but nothing survived the first winter and I've never tried it again...
I think the key with these is to have deeply cultivated soil so the roots can grow down as deep as possible. At our old place we grew them in raised beds filled completely with compost and had excellent success that way. Now I think I will topdress all of them with compost in the fall to help protect them over the winter.
I'm growing several different toad lilies now and this past winter really tested them out as far as zone 5 winter hardiness goes...
I had a really good clump of Samurai growing and anything in the top 6 to 8" of soil died. However, there are really deep sprouts growing now and it does look like the colony will reestablish itself.
I will mulch heavily with compost this fall.Gilt Edge also took a hit, but it was moved late in the season. Again, sprouts are just now coming back from very deep under the ground and the colony should grow back fine.
Emperor was planted in the spring of 2004, grew well, bloomed, but we have not seen any sign of life and can't find any living roots either...
The others, based on zone 5 winters:
Tricolor - one season overwintered several in pots and had 100% success. Also saw roots laying out on the ground survive the winter. This one is very cold hardy but is not summer heat tolerant, often going heat dormant.
White Towers - excellent growth, no problems in winter or summer.
Empress - very vigorous - again no problems.
Dark Beauty - develops huge rhizomes, very hardy but we've had some slightly burned leaves in summer.
Lightning Strike - no winter hardiness problems but the foliage is highly variable, sometimes sprouts solid green, pale flowers are not very showy.
Hatatogisa - no winter hardiness problems and nice clean foliage.
Maculata - basically a short growing hirta type. I think this is the same as some called Myazaki Hybrids. No problems, sets lots of viable seed and we have some crosses between this and Empress with purple stems, hairy leaves, deep spotted flowers on short stalks.
New ones started this year are Raspberry Mousse, Blue Wonder, Moonlight Treasure.
The only plant that I've completely lost (other than possibly Emperor) is Tojen. Might not have liked where it was planted but nothing survived the first winter and I've never tried it again...
I think the key with these is to have deeply cultivated soil so the roots can grow down as deep as possible. At our old place we grew them in raised beds filled completely with compost and had excellent success that way. Now I think I will topdress all of them with compost in the fall to help protect them over the winter.
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wholyhosta
- Posts: 74
- Joined: Mar 25, 2005 4:57 pm
- Location: NE Georgia
Toad Lilies
Chris-
I second Homer- great info.
I have two varieties- common ones sold at nurseries here in the South. I don't have the nametags anymore. White flowers on one, varigated purple/white w/ purple spots on other- solid green foliage growing about 24-30" tall. Our soil never freezes more than 1-2".
I hesitated to plant them, because I have seen yards where they take over (re-seeding) in a major way and are a competative ground cover for anything under 18-24"- but mine have been very nicely behaved- not really spreading at all and not reseeding into adjacent beds.
So, where do you buy/trade for, the toad lilies on the extensive list that Chris posted?
And can they be grown successfully as companion plants to hostas? I want to try some of the ones posted above.
Thanks for any help you can lend!
Brenda B
I second Homer- great info.
I have two varieties- common ones sold at nurseries here in the South. I don't have the nametags anymore. White flowers on one, varigated purple/white w/ purple spots on other- solid green foliage growing about 24-30" tall. Our soil never freezes more than 1-2".
I hesitated to plant them, because I have seen yards where they take over (re-seeding) in a major way and are a competative ground cover for anything under 18-24"- but mine have been very nicely behaved- not really spreading at all and not reseeding into adjacent beds.
So, where do you buy/trade for, the toad lilies on the extensive list that Chris posted?
And can they be grown successfully as companion plants to hostas? I want to try some of the ones posted above.
Thanks for any help you can lend!
Brenda B
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Chris_W
- Administrator
- Posts: 8465
- Joined: Oct 05, 2001 8:00 pm
- USDA Zone: 9
- Location: Co. Roscommon, Ireland
- Contact:
Hi Brenda,
The one that I have called "maculata" sets a lot of seed so I bet that one would really spread around a lot in zone 8. But the others I've grown rarely seed out here. All do spread to form a colony and we use them a lot as shady accents.
You don't have to go too far to find them, as we sell them. I don't have all of the plants listed available right now and some are selling down quite a bit, but they are on our Tricyrtis page. At this time of year we ship them with the roots wrapped in wet paper towel, just like shipping hostas.
Click on the link at the top for perennials to get to our mail order listing, then click on Tricyrtis. If you have any questions let me know.
By the way, Homer, you mentioned that you have Moonlight Treasure. Did that overwinter good for you? I just got them in and can't get over how large the yellow flowers are! Sure do hope they are perennial here in zone 5...
The one that I have called "maculata" sets a lot of seed so I bet that one would really spread around a lot in zone 8. But the others I've grown rarely seed out here. All do spread to form a colony and we use them a lot as shady accents.
You don't have to go too far to find them, as we sell them. I don't have all of the plants listed available right now and some are selling down quite a bit, but they are on our Tricyrtis page. At this time of year we ship them with the roots wrapped in wet paper towel, just like shipping hostas.
Click on the link at the top for perennials to get to our mail order listing, then click on Tricyrtis. If you have any questions let me know.
By the way, Homer, you mentioned that you have Moonlight Treasure. Did that overwinter good for you? I just got them in and can't get over how large the yellow flowers are! Sure do hope they are perennial here in zone 5...
My Moonlight Treasure is really taking off here, and did just fine over the winter. I had a few yellow flowers last year, but I'm really hoping for a nice display this year. Mine was sold to me last year as a very small plant (probably just a few months out of TC), and I planted it in about 4" of compost. The roots look like they are really taking off this season (accidentally moved this one whe digging up trade plants this spring).
I really like the mottled leaves on this one, and I'm hoping for some solid growth the next few years--it looks like I'm going to get it out of this one. I lost a few plants here this year that I was surprised about, so I think this one will be okay here in Zone 5 . . . although I think your winters are worse than ours.
As for folks who have trouble with toad lillies reseeding, I'm jealous. Our season here is so short that I can't even collect viable seed. I'm hoping that will change as the plants get older, but I doubt it. Maybe if I plant with more sun exposure.
I know that my T. hirta does very well in almost full sun here.
I really like the mottled leaves on this one, and I'm hoping for some solid growth the next few years--it looks like I'm going to get it out of this one. I lost a few plants here this year that I was surprised about, so I think this one will be okay here in Zone 5 . . . although I think your winters are worse than ours.
As for folks who have trouble with toad lillies reseeding, I'm jealous. Our season here is so short that I can't even collect viable seed. I'm hoping that will change as the plants get older, but I doubt it. Maybe if I plant with more sun exposure.
I know that my T. hirta does very well in almost full sun here.-
Chris_W
- Administrator
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- Joined: Oct 05, 2001 8:00 pm
- USDA Zone: 9
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Thanks a lot for the info. If it overwintered from a young TC plant then I have hope I'll get a picture of mine that I just got in - and they are in bloom, so I know they were greenhouse grown over the winter.
Our winters aren't too bad normally here in Michigan. The lakes help to protect us a little...
I'll get a picture of mine that I just got in - and they are in bloom, so I know they were greenhouse grown over the winter.Our winters aren't too bad normally here in Michigan. The lakes help to protect us a little...
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wholyhosta
- Posts: 74
- Joined: Mar 25, 2005 4:57 pm
- Location: NE Georgia
Thanks, Chris
I checked out your webpage and saw you had several left- Empress sounds nice. Also, do you ever sell or trade seed?
I don't have any growing with hostas right now- bad or good idea as companion plants, keeping in mind not to plant amongst the minis? but with the bigger hostas, okey?
Brenda
I checked out your webpage and saw you had several left- Empress sounds nice. Also, do you ever sell or trade seed?
I don't have any growing with hostas right now- bad or good idea as companion plants, keeping in mind not to plant amongst the minis? but with the bigger hostas, okey?
Brenda
Chris,
My experience with toadies in 5a pretty much mirrors yours:( I haven't tried planting deep, so only protection is modest mulch)... Samurai disappeared after a couple of years, as did Gilt Edge, (and also Gates of Heaven). Emperor came back this spring very late and small after its first winter. I think the trouble is, all four of these are Formosana clones. Unfortunately, they also are the four coolest toadies out there; Emperor is my favorite (I like flashy), so if it disappears I may try it deeper, but otherwise no more Formosanas for me. Tojen is very hardy, so you should try it again. Moonlight Treasure is a real keeper, and I agree the flowers are huge for the plant size; apparently it stays small. Mine tripled in size its first year. Have you tried Key Lime Pie? The flowers are nothing, but the foliage is very unique; very stiff and upright, two tone green with blotches.
Don
My experience with toadies in 5a pretty much mirrors yours:( I haven't tried planting deep, so only protection is modest mulch)... Samurai disappeared after a couple of years, as did Gilt Edge, (and also Gates of Heaven). Emperor came back this spring very late and small after its first winter. I think the trouble is, all four of these are Formosana clones. Unfortunately, they also are the four coolest toadies out there; Emperor is my favorite (I like flashy), so if it disappears I may try it deeper, but otherwise no more Formosanas for me. Tojen is very hardy, so you should try it again. Moonlight Treasure is a real keeper, and I agree the flowers are huge for the plant size; apparently it stays small. Mine tripled in size its first year. Have you tried Key Lime Pie? The flowers are nothing, but the foliage is very unique; very stiff and upright, two tone green with blotches.
Don