My first attempt at hybridizing

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My first attempt at hybridizing

Postby marriedtomud » Jul 15, 2006 3:45 pm

William Lachman had his first bud to open today. I was
waiting all week for it and today it happened. The pollen donor
was none other than the very last bud on one of
this summers favorites ... Sun Power.

My first attempt at hybridizing is now on record ....

'Sun Power' x 'William Lachman'

Can hardly wait to see the results. This is exciting and it
adds a whole other dimension to the garden.

Because this was Sun Powers last bud I also used the pollen
on several nearby buds .... a dark shiny seedling,
Gold Standard, a Niagra Falls seedling, and Lakeside Cha Cha.
Tomorrow's planned pairings with Lachman will be
pollen from the last buds of Sagae & Elvis Lives.

If I wanted to store the pollen of one for a few days do
I refrigerate it or freeze it? Do these look well pollinted?

Curtis/m2m

Lachman
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My first attempt at hybridizing

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Postby newtohosta-no more » Jul 15, 2006 4:32 pm

Dr. Dave was just showing me the procedure yesterday and it sures looks like you have lots of yellow on the tip, so I'd say it looks well pollenated. :wink: But then again...what do I know? :lol:

Good luck with your first attempts!! :wink:
~JOAN~
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Postby wishiwere » Jul 16, 2006 8:28 am

I know nothing about this, other than Mr. LM produces great seeds! :D I have proof in the pudding.........er hosta seedlings. But love your closeups! Great shots!
Jane (from the middle of the Mitten state)
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Postby renaldo75 » Jul 16, 2006 9:43 am

Curtis - I haven't ever tried it in my garden yet. I'm sure I will someday... If William Lachman is your pod parent though, your cross should be listed as 'William Lachman' X 'Sun Power' - pod parent is always 1st & pollen donor is 2nd if known. Otherwise it would be 'William Lachman' OP.

Have fun!! :P Sounds like you already are. :wink: :cool:
GO HAWKEYES!!!

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Postby marriedtomud » Jul 16, 2006 11:06 am

Thanks guys

Kent was kind enough to give me a few pointers.
Info on the naming procedure is appreciated Renaldo.
If you're serious about wanting to try it I suggest starting
with just one good pod parent. Doesn't take long at all
and I'm really enjoying it. Really adds to the garden
experience.

I did a few more this morning ... beat the bees ... gotta
get a tagging system set up.

Curtis/m2m
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Postby Seedseller1 » Jul 16, 2006 12:19 pm

Curtis, I use a very simple method to "tag" my crosses. I keep a card for each pod parent, and write the date of the cross, the number of pods I have pollinated on that date, the pollen donor, and the color of thread that I use to denote that cross:

(clickable)

Image
Image

This method allows me to record much more info than I could on a "jewelry tag" and it is ledgable at the end of the season. Holding one end of the thread with a pair of hemostats and the other with my fingers I can quickly and nimbly wrap around the flower to tie the knot (twice). Avoid using threads that are close in color as some fade as the season progresses. Hope this helps and enjoy the ride!
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Postby marriedtomud » Jul 16, 2006 6:00 pm

Thanks for the record keeping tips Mike.

I thought I was going to start with just the one (WL) but
it was jsut too tempting standing there with a fresh anther
of pollen in my hands to not do some of the others.

So far I've managed to stick with about five that are close by but I'm pretty sure that won't last as some of the others
start to open.

Curtis/m2m
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Postby DBoweMD » Jul 17, 2006 7:40 am

This is a great thing to do, can be very rewarding.

William Lachman is known to be a good fertile pod parent, I wish I had one... I only have some small seedlings from it, and maybe I'll get some pods from them this summer if they bloom.

You'll find that some parents are incompatible and no matter how many times you try, the cross it won't work.

By about 3 days you can tell if the pod is forming, or if the flower aborts and just falls off. Don't be too discouraged by it, it is a numbers game.

An example is Blue Mouse Ears, I have not been able to get either the pollen or the pod to work on other plants so far. It is fertile on rare occasion, as Katails has a seedling. I assume it is a triploid or tetraploid to be so thick and so infertile.

Other plants will take almost any pollen and form a pod. Right now I'm having really good luck on 'Marilyn' and 'Fresh'.

You'll keep mental notes over the years and learn not to waste your time with some. I have always done as you are doing, not that organized. You will get cool seedlings by crossing things that look a lot different from each other.

Good luck!
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Postby marriedtomud » Jul 17, 2006 8:56 am

Hey Dave

Thanks for the well wishes and good advice.

Your advice about mismatches came after this mornings
efforts but I did just exactly that. Lachman had four buds
open and because of all the moisture in the air there was no good pollen to be had. I searched the garden for open flowers with good pollen ... the winner was Golden Tiara.
She had two crosses with Lachman and I got to thinking
about a nice small streaked baby with Tiaras great growth
abitity. Could be a good thing.

The other two buds went to some pollen I had saved from
Sagae & Elvis Lives. The first crosses I did look as though they're taking .... lumps are forming in the flower base.

The trick for me will be doing containment. Just too many
of them look appealing for crosses.

Have you (Anyone) had any luck using Montana Aureomarginata?

Curtis/m2m
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Postby DBoweMD » Jul 17, 2006 9:22 am

Yes Montana Aureo is fairly fertile. The seedlings don't grow very fast for me. I had a lot better luck with Montana Macrophylla.
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Postby dmi188 » Jul 17, 2006 9:47 am

Fun! Good luck Curtis! Great close ups!

I too would like to know about the pollen...If I leave it setting out, how long is it good? How long if refridgerated? If frozen?

My Wm Lachman is still in a pot, so I believe I will bring it in for pollinating in a day or two, when the buds are ready to open. Too hot to set seed out there!!!
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Postby DBoweMD » Jul 17, 2006 9:58 am

I have my Galaxy seedling (has 4 scapes, only one with streaked leaves) in a window for the light, in air conditioning. It's in the 90's yesterday and today.
I am using the non streaked flowers to test pollen fertility from various cultivars before using the streaked eye... so I can avoid using incompatible pollen on my good scape. A few have taken, a few have failed.
I'll keep notes for next season, but I can also use the information this year on the last few flowers of the good scape.
If you have them in the ground, you can cover the flowers the night before with plastic grocery bags. Then the rain won't spoil your efforts. This keeps bees away too. You do have to be careful not to self pollinate your plant when you remove the bag.
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Postby leafmould » Jul 17, 2006 11:48 am

Good Going Curtis :P It is always a good idea to crop the stamens before a cross. Using a small open pair of scissors, use one blade to lift the pistil up above the stamens, slide the blade towards the flower base and snip. The stamens will drop without contaminating your cross and selfing.
It also prevents something like a hummingbird from rattling the anthers :???:
If you are using a strung tag, loop it around the scape in stead of the flower stem. If your cross doesn't take, your tag will fall off and you can loose valuable info.
For repeated crosses, move the tag up the scape, all below has the same pollen donor. Change pollen ? new tag.
the real fun begins at germination time :cool: :cool:
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Postby marriedtomud » Jul 17, 2006 12:45 pm

Good advice ... sooo much appreciated.

I pulled the filaments from a flower this morning and the entire flower came off. Good thing I was only after the pollen. Cutting them makes so much more sense. It's becoming obvious to me now that I'm going to have to have a kit with me.

I have been removing the pod parent filaments (pics ... complete with beginners marking system) but noticed that Lachman hasn't had any good pollen so far. Moisture? Heat? Beginners gitters?

If this were being done indoors I could see the benefits of
using hanging tags ... but would they hold up to the elements outdoors? If they do they would be easiest for me. LOL ... right now I'm using masking tape with the donor info in waterproof marker. I'd be leery of using thread ... not the sharpest eyes in the world ... especially in the dark of early morning. Maybe something a little larger ... yarn? Better come up with an idea soon.

The first few attempts do look promising. Small lumps are
forming at the flower bases already. Hopefully have a few new pics tonite when the heat dies down.

Curtis/m2m

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Postby nimblewill » Jul 17, 2006 1:10 pm

Curtis, the masking tape might not hold up as well as the ink after exposure to rain. You might want to test a few samples in the kitchen sink. Maybe a plastic tape?
Bill

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Postby GrannyNanny » Jul 17, 2006 1:18 pm

I have grown many lovely seedlings from Sun Power as a pod parent. They were OP seedlings, but have been outstanding, so I wish you luck with using SP as a pollen parent. Phyllis
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Postby marriedtomud » Jul 17, 2006 7:26 pm

Hi Will
The tape is just temporary. It was a last minute decision
to actually attempt cross pollinating this year. If I were doing just Lachman it wouldn't be so bad but it's too easy to be tempted with all the other buds about.
I found a supplier on line tonite for the threaded price tags
and she's mailing them out tomorrow. She also looking into getting them for me in multiple colors and may be able to get a dozen colors. With a dozen colors and dots added you could easily have a color coded system with tags for info. For now it'll be just basic white with dots.

Granny Nanny
Thanks so much for your well wishes. I've seen your pics of the big beautiful yellow Hostas ... you have had good fortune with Sun Power.
He just seemed to be the natural selection because he was such a show stopper all season. He was also on his last flower the day that Lachman opened. Karma? LOL.
There's a smaller division of SP in deeper shade and he may yet send up a scape. The cross with SP looks like it took.
I was outside tonite to plan for tomorrow mornings crosses and the base of the WL flowers pollinated on Sat are starting to swell.

What do you think? Success?

Curtis/m2m

Lachman's pollen looks as though it took with Island Charm
(love the pink scapes)
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WL x Sun Power
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Postby marriedtomud » Jul 18, 2006 9:30 am

Heavy rains last nite made for very little fluffy pollen this morning. Sweetie (growing in a pot) was the only outside Hosta to have what looked to be good viable pollen. The
other three were covered with Elvis Lives & Montana A that I had saved. Today I'll collect and save a few more when the sun comes out.

Questions that came to mind this morning ...

If I collect and freeze pollen how long does it stay viable?
Recommended method for storing?

Any success stories with using Lachman pollen on others?

How's Spilt Milk, Seventh Heaven, Misty Gold, & Breeders
Choice for pod parents? How about for pollen donors.

If a streaked Hosta reverts to non streaked form is it still
a good candidate for pod parent? For pollen?

I do realise this is a scattered, broad spectrum approach to hybridizing.
Hopefully the finer points of attempting crosses for specific traits will surface in a bit.

Thanks for all your good responses of advice & well wishes.

Curtis/m2m
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Postby DBoweMD » Jul 18, 2006 10:17 am

I noticed on your tape that some are below and some are above the flower, one was near two flowers such that you can't tell which one was right. You will need to get a consistent method so you'll remember what you did in 2 or 3 months.
Some plants that have the flowers close together on the scape like the blue (Tokudama and Sieboldiana types) ones, and Montana Aureo flowers tend to cluster in whorls around the scape, so you will need to isolate the pedicel (stalk between scape and flower base) to tie onto. I use pieces of twist ties from the grocery store. I cut one into four pieces.

I don't know why there are no anthers on those flowers you showed. I don't have W.L. but would be surprised that something so fertile would not produce anthers.
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Postby dmi188 » Jul 18, 2006 10:42 am

Curtis, I'm new at this too, but I can answer one question! Spilt Milk is good as both a pod parent and a pollen donor. I have many pods on mine, and it successfully set pods on Sea Sunrise. As to the outcome, and whether there will be any misting or streaking, that remains to be seen.
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