My first attempt at hybridizing

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dmi188
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Post by dmi188 »

Today I noticed that Cinnamon Sticks is sending up a scape for the first time. I got it from Wade Gardens internet site last year, and it was soooo puny I thought it wouldn't live the winter. It has grown and is now ready to bloom.
marriedtomud
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Some pods are ready now

Post by marriedtomud »

John ...

Your ears must have been ringing ... I got an email from another hybridizer saying ... Heed John advice ... Most of those pods have ripe seeds already!


His advice was to not be caught in inclement weather trying to gather the seeds from pods that split all at once but rather to gather them gradually. Considering that at the height of the season I was pollinating over thirty flowers a day ... it makes good sense.

Obviously ALL the crosses didn't take. Misty Gold was Pod sterile and his pollen was used on eveeything several times with minimal results. Pineapple Poll had over two hundred flowers and made a dozen pods. Bright Lights has two pods on three scapes. Iron Gate Delight has NO pods.
In spite of the non fertile ones ... there are quite a few pods to harvest.

A dozen pods were hsrvested tonite to experiment. Most had fully ripe seeds. A few had mostly ripe with a few still developing. One ... Spilt Milk was like Lachman last year. Most of the seeds inside were nowhere near developed even though he finished flowering before the end of June.

Blue Cadet & August Moon had only a couple seeds per small pod but the dark seedling & Frances Williams had over two dozen seeds each. The dark seedling had the largest seeds by far. They were twice the size of the next largest and several times the size of Blue cadet (the smallest).

I'll continue to harvest all the OP this way and also any crosses that show drying ... I think if I'm as diligent about collecting as I was about crossing I shouldn't get too far behind.

Curtis/m2m
marriedtomud
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Post by marriedtomud »

High Kicker and Red October had open flowers this morning.

HK had two that are beautifully striped. The scape is so thin that the flowers weighed it over and the ants ate most
of the pollen in the first flower. The higher flower had good pollen so it was used on most everything still in bloom.
It's odd that no matter what size the plant and scape that the flowers are full size. I guess reproduction by seed must rank highly in importance.

Red October had all five scapes open multiple flowers at once. They were in clusters like Camelot.

Marilyn Monroe had her third flower. She goes days in between flowering. Wonder if this will change when she is
more mature?

I've been collecting about a dozen pods each morning and
cleaning the seeds each nite. It takes only a few minutes per pod and by the next moring they are dry enough to
store in ziploc baggies. I have to move the large Sun Power this weekend so I'll be cutting the scapes from him and bringing them indoors. Lots of pods on SP.

Two of the pods on August Moon were harvested and had
non viable seeds ... no kernals ... all wing. These were the only ones so far ... knock wood.

Added a couple more to the garden this week. Toy Soldier,
Maui Buttercips, & a small Korean Snow.

Curtis/m2m
marriedtomud
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Post by marriedtomud »

I'm home and it's raining ... must be a Saturday.
Yup ... college footabll is on TV ... it's Saturday.

Between bouts of rain (& half times) I got outside to collect pollen and pods. It actually stopped raining for ten minutes ... enough time to do a few crosses. I found some old pollen from Sun Power for Marilyn Monroe & High Kicker. Breeder's Choice got High Kicker & Guac got Marilyn Monroe. MM, HK & BC had good pollen in spite of the dampness.

Almost all the fragrants have finsihed for the year. There's a few flowers left on Guac and Royal Standard. Camelot is almost done also.

One of the scapes on Bub's Gift (a Royal Standard seedling)
turned brown seemingly overnite. It had ten good sized pods which also browned. The crosses were from Fragrant Blue, Striptease, Lachman, Kabitan, and one of the few to take with Fire Island. Alll of them had undeveloped seeds
and are lost. The other three scapes look fine ... this one just finished flowering in late August. One more of the downsides to hybridizing.

Seeds collected ... Elvis Lives .. small pods ... just 6 small seeds per pod but all perfect. Christmas Tree Gala ... about 75 viable seeds from the entire OP scape. Tons of Frances Williams. The packages are starting to pile up.

Curtis/m2m

Gotta love the Alabama quarterback John Parker Wilson.
He reminds me of a young Elway.
marriedtomud
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Pods aplenty

Post by marriedtomud »

Tonite I harvested pods ... lots of pods ... almost 300 of them. That should at least catch me up for a while.

The kitchen table is covered with drying seeds piles.
A lot of them are OP ... the first Sun Power with 4 scapes
and 50+ pods ... Queen of the Seas with about two dozen pods ... also Tokudama F , Blue Cadet, Blue River, Elegans, Island Charm, Great Expectations, Christmas Tree Gala, Abiqua Drinking Gourd.

There were also some individual hybridized pods that were harvested ... including the first Lachman crosses with
Sun Power & Montana Aureomarginata. I cut the entire
first scape from Lachman and brought it indoors to finish.
Most of the pods look like they're starting to dry and wrinkle a little so they shouldn't take much longer.

Lachman pods had less than a dozen viable seeds each.

When some pods are opened they sometimes have a seed
or two that will shoot out and go flying off .... usually landing on me or by the chair. I left them until harvesting was finished and then put them all together in a bowl.
Whatever ends up in that bowl when all the harvesting is done is going to be donated to the seed auction for Hallson's. It'll be billed as a mixed lot but there's going to
be some amazing crosses in there as well. Speaking of the
Hallson's seed auction ... when is it due to start?

The flowering season is winding down quickly now. MM
still has quite a few flowers and the last Breeder's Choice scape is making a new cluster of flowers but there won't be much else left for outside pollen soon. It's time. I'm just about ready for the flowering season to end. It'll give me time to finish collecting all the seeds and make preparations for seed sowing.

A few pics tomorrow.

Curtis/m2m
GibbsCorner
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Post by GibbsCorner »

Curtis,

I want to thank you for taking the time to document your hybridizing adventures in this thread. It's been really informative and motivational too. I hope you're planning to continue it, documenting your "preparations" for sowing and of course the seedlings that result! :D

Matt
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playinmud
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Post by playinmud »

Wow Curtis! Didn't realize you'd harvested that many seed pods. Good for you! I want to see a pic of your kitchen table, I'll bet there are pods everywhere. :D

Are any pods forming on MM?? Mine is flowering, pollen is viable, but no pods.
~PIM~

°`°º¤ø,¸¸Kindness is the oil that takes the friction out of life¸¸,ø¤º°`°
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DBoweMD
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Post by DBoweMD »

I'm harvesting pods too, lots to do still.
Still hybridizing as well.
I'm getting crosses to take on Raspberry Sorbet, in a pot, and never had success in the ground in past years. Today were the last 2 open flowers on it.
marriedtomud
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Post by marriedtomud »

Talk about excited.

I was harvesting seeds again tonite ... the kitchen is filled with vases of pods in sugar water and I'm running out of space to make a sandwich in there ... so I've been harvesting for a couple hours tonite.

Harvesting seeds is hard on the neck muscles ... some of them are really small and you end up bending over a lot. I had to stop for a break .... a PB & J on toasted english muffin ... one of my favorite snacks ... and sitting near the toaster is a seed starting tray.

With sprouts!

The first three pods harvested are sprouting. I planted six seeds each of QOTS, Blue River, & Sagae and they've sprouted. I'm thinking it's because the heat has been kicking on at nite and this tray is on the counter over the heat register. They're really tiny.

Now I've gotta get the lights set up ... quickly.

More in a bit. Maybe pics too.

Curtis/m2m
tsneal
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Post by tsneal »

Woohoo!!!! Pictures...excellent!

Stephanie
marriedtomud
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Post by marriedtomud »

At home for a few minutes .... afternoon hybridizing and a few minutes to check in here.

Matt ... Thanks for taking time to let me know you're enjoying this thread. I too am enjoying the responses and emails. In my excitement over finding sprouts yesterday I was rushing to post and didn't want you to think I didn't appreciate hearing from you. I'm sure to have a few pics and posts still ... a lot of people are as anxious to see the
babies as I am.

Donna ... my messy kitchen table ... LOL ... I wish I had seen your request before cleaning everything up. The pods husks were a huge pile. There's a lot more to go. I was doing the rest of the Lachman pods last nite when I found the sprouts. Maybe time to post a few shots tonite.

Steph ... Woohoo is about exactly how I felt. LOL.

Dave ... There are still six Hostas in bloom ... Lancifolia, Marilyn Monroe, High Kicker, Paradise Red Delight, Fire Island, & Breeder's Choice. Guac may have a couple more flowers to open also. They've all been crossed and double crossed as many ways as is possible ... and most of these don't have open flowers in the early mornings any more.
I'll keep doing the afternoon crosses but they're winding down and I'm ready to let them end. Not gonna bring anything indoors this time around but some of the new ones gotten late this year will be really tempting for next season. I'd still like to find a blue/gold streaker thats early blooming .... any suggestions? Thanks for helping to be
an inspiration and giving freely of your advise this season ... I've learned a lot.

Curtis/m2m

Pics tonite.
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playinmud
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Post by playinmud »

Hi there Curtis, you promised us pics...I hope you were able to take a few. Would love to see the sprouts too.

:wink:
~PIM~

°`°º¤ø,¸¸Kindness is the oil that takes the friction out of life¸¸,ø¤º°`°
marriedtomud
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Post by marriedtomud »

Yup ... I guess I did.

Been fighting a cold all week ... my voice sounds like
Harvey Fierstein. But a promise is a promise .... cold or no cold.

I've been slowly but surely getting the pods gathered and the seeds sorted. Every morning before leaving for work I've been harvesting a few scapes. If they've only been pollinated a short while they they get put in sugar water to finish curing ... if they're older scapes the pods get seperated, marked and left to dry on napkins or newspaper. Every nite I spend at least an hour harvesting seeds and packaging them after they dry. The packages are mounting up pretty quickly.

Now the weather forcast is calling for snow tomorrow so pod collecting has gotten thrown into overdrive. The cold weather won't hurt the older crosses but it could damage the ones done only a short while. Looks like the season is gonna end like it started .... with me covering the late blooming Hostas with large boxes and blankets to prevent frost damage. I'm hoping this freak nite of bad weather doesn't materialize ... we normally don't get a frost til around Thanksgiving ... and the few extra weeks will make a huge difference to the late crosses.

There's only about 30 scapes left to harvest and some of those will be able to finish curing indoors.

Some of the harvested seeds were too tempting to package up so I planted a few as I collected. The first tray is almost full and is under lights now. Lots of moisture formed on the cover but I was able to get a pic of a Queen of the Seas sprout through the moisture. She's tiny and was hard to get a focus.

Some of the seeds planted were ....
Xanadu Virginia Mary, Atom Smasher, Red Dragon, Lachman, Kent's Dancing Queen, John Hayuko X Komodo Dragon, Dave's Seedling #720, eKn's Frosty Morn, Dorothy Benedict X Dorothy Benedict, Lakeside Knickknack, Rosie Posie, Christmas Tree Gala, & Bullseye.

This weekend I hope to have the time to build a stand
to house the seed trays. I've a good design with slide out shelving and optimum size for lights, trays, and access.
I'll be sure to take pics when I build it.


Curtis/m2m

Marilyn Monroe is setting pods. The first one with Guac missed but the next few have taken and pods are forming.


Pollen tray and tonites collected scapes
Image

Curing Scapes
Image

More Curing Scapes
Image

Pods to harvest tonite
Image

The not too messy table after orginizing
Image

Open pollinated seeds packs
Image

Lachman crosses ... first scape
Image

Someone asked about Great Expectations fertility ... Yup ... ripe GE seeds.
Image

Collected seeds Oct 1
Image

Oh yeah ...

Oueen of the Seas sprout
Image
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playinmud
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Post by playinmud »

:eek: WOW! :eek: All I can say is FANTASTIC!!!! I'm sitting here drooling all over the keyboard.

Good harvesting Curtis!!

Thanks for posting the pics,
~PIM~

°`°º¤ø,¸¸Kindness is the oil that takes the friction out of life¸¸,ø¤º°`°
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Willowy
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Post by Willowy »

I was very surprised with how well the marker ink held up. I see it in your pics and it held up well on the plants I marked. Perhaps a little better than my thread colors held up in the sun... The amount of seed you have is amazing. Will you try to grow a lot of the op or just focus on the crosses?
a.k.a. hostabuff
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marriedtomud
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Post by marriedtomud »

Hey Willowy

Yup ... I was pleasantly suprised at how well the markings on bract leaves held up also but I'm not going to count on those markings as the primary cross ID next season. When I started out I didn't anticipate doing as many crosses as I ended up doing. It was on the spot training and experimenting. Now I can pull anthers and do the pollen application in about 30 seconds ... thats the easiest part. The recording of crosses and collecting of seeds needs a bit of fine tuning yet. Knowing what I do now I'm leaning towards using thin strips (1/4") of masking tape with a numbered cross wrapped around the pedicel. Any pertinent info about that cross can be kept in a journal.
The masking tape is guaranteed to stay put and it held up all season. Even that will have to be adjusted for dealing with Hostas that have flowers in clusters.

The biggest change I hope to achieve next season will be to have a seperate area for individual eyes of the plants I want to use in hybridizing. And a lot of those will be potted so that they can be moved to the rear when their flowering season is over. The gardens just aren't as attractive when certain plants are being used for hybridizing.

I'm mainly going to concentrate on hybridized crosses but if time, space, and energy allow I'd like to grow some of the OP seeds also. QOTS was all OP as was Elegans, Blue River & Tokudama F.



Hey Mud ....
I want my kitchen back. I'm determined to be able to cook
in there again .... soon.
The seeds pictured so far were as of Oct 1. There's probably three times that amount here now and I still have about 25 scapes yet to go. All the Lancifolia crosses are still too green to harvest and some of the late flowering ones like Marilyn Monroe & High Kicker have been in flower only a few weeks. The only fragrant thats been collected so far is Fragrant Blue.

In spite of what I thought just a few days ago I ended up bringing four Hostas indoors to either finish up thier flowering season or until the snow goes away ... whichever happens first. It snowed and hailed here today. Supposed to drop down to 28 tonite. I didn't want to take a chance on losing the pods that are showing on MM & Breeder's Choice. And believe it or not Kabitan sent up another new scape this week. LOL ... Love that Hosta.


The seeds that hit the floor and end up in a collection bowl (for a Hallson's auction) is growing pretty quickly. That's going to be a pretty terrific mix by the time harvesting is through.

Hope I get a bit of time to work on the seed stand this weekend. I'm gonna need it soon.

Curtis/m2m
tsneal
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Post by tsneal »

WOW, WOW, WOW!! WTG Curtis!

Stephanie
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buff24
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Post by buff24 »

Great job, Curtis! I'm impressed!! :) Can't wait to see your seedlings...
Buff

We have not inherited the earth from our fathers, we are borrowing it from our children. ~Native American saying
marriedtomud
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Post by marriedtomud »

Steph & Buff

Thanks for the kudos ... the harvesting has been a bit hectic but it's nearing the end. All the pods inside are harvested ... and all thats left to harvest outside are the late bloomers, Guac, and Fried Green Tomatos. While the kitchen hasn't been completely reclaimed it's at least free of ripening scapes.

Amazingly the two days of snow we had didn't cause a lot of damage to the Hostas that were still in good shape. The ones that were already in decline when it happened faded quickly but the ones still in bloom had no damage to be seen. Marilyn Monroe continues to bloom as does Breeder's Choice & Kabitan.

This time last week I sowed seeds enough to finish the first tray. When I checked tonite there were sprouts showing from a dozen of them ... Rosie Posie, CTG, Wiggle Worms, Swoosh, Atom Smasher, Frosty Morn, Xanadu Virginia Mary, DB X DB, Red Dragon, Lakeside Knick Knack, Sally & Bob, & Dave's sedling #720. These opened really quickly and I'm convinced that being near the heat register had a lot to do with it.

Working on the seed stand ... hope to have a few more trays under lights by the weekend.

Curtis/m2m

To all those who asked ... I obviously can't grow all these
seeds to a mature plant so there's bound to be lots of culling ... and yup ... I can do it. LOL ... Sometimes you have to be tough.
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Dee_dla
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Post by Dee_dla »

:bd: Happy Birthday, Curtis!!! :bd:

Hope your day is filled with lots of joy and surprises. and to stay on topic...May the year ahead bring many new unique seedlings that you just can't do away with! :wink: :D

Have a great day!!!
Dee
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"The poetry of the earth is never dead." ~John Keats
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