My first attempt at hybridizing

marriedtomud · Post by **marriedtomud** » Jul 29, 2006 6:01 am

Got home a bit early last nite and found lots of developing seed pods doing the rounds. Lachman scapes are doing pretty well considering all the hot/moist conditions we've had. There's a cluster of unopened flowers atop each Lachman scape and Paradice Joyce has almost no scape at all. Gonna make record keeping a little more complex.

The marked leaves are turning color but the writing on the scape itself has held up as has the masking tape.
The nerd in me is constantly formulating plans for a better system ... a journal and a number for each cross ... numbered scapes ... lots of possibilities.

Montana Aureomarginata had his last bud and has really suprised me. Every cross from each day has taken and pods are forming. His single scape got a variety of shapes, colors, and sizes for crosses. From Faithful Heart to Halycon and finally Misty Gold. The Niagra Falls Seedling and MA both had excellent pod fertility.

Curtis/m2m

Lachman crosses

Montana Aureomarginata pods

Lancifolia scape

gootziecat · Post by **gootziecat** » Jul 29, 2006 8:46 am

I've been doing my 'first attempts' at hybridizing this summer too. I bought Breeder's Choice and ended up getting Breeder's Edge due to mislabeling at the seller's end. I've bred BE to itself and Warwick's Essence and BE appears to be sterile. Self breeding WE is producing pods (and some others are too) but anything bred to BE, pollen or pod, gets zip. Don't see much on HLibrary about progeny. Has anyone had any experience with this particular hosta or know about it?
Thanks.

gootziecat

marriedtomud · Post by **marriedtomud** » Jul 29, 2006 5:50 pm

Gootziecat

Earlier this spring eKn (Ken Marek) gave me a clump of Breeder's Choice that had stabilized to the variegated edge form which is called Breeder's Edge.
I divided it into several pieces and cut most of the foliage away. Three eyes sent out new growth that had streaked leaves (to various degrees). The tiniest one has incredible streaking. One of them sent up a scape and I've been using that one for hybridizing with excellent fertility. He is both pod and pollen fertile.

Something may be amiss with your plant. Do you have a pic of your BE?

Curtis/m2m

Breeder's Edge (Stabilized Breeder's Choice)

dmi188 · Post by **dmi188** » Jul 29, 2006 8:06 pm

Wonder if I could get my Swoosh stable to streak?!?! Worth a try!

DS had his appendix out this week, so not much hybridizing being done here except for the bees...
laevegata getting ready to bloom tho. That one is worth working on!

gootziecat · Post by **gootziecat** » Jul 29, 2006 8:55 pm

Curtis,

I'll try to remember to take a pix of BE tomorrow and then, split it up per your suggestion. Sounds like a very interesting venture. Hostas are such fun.

gootziecat

gootziecat · Post by **gootziecat** » Jul 30, 2006 10:42 am

Curtis,
Here's a pix of my Breeder's Edge.

gootziecat

marriedtomud · Post by **marriedtomud** » Jul 30, 2006 8:53 pm

hey Gootsiecat

I guess it looks similar enough that it could actually be
BE. Did you contact the seller about receiving the wrong plant? Seems as though you shouldn't get stuck with
BE as a replacement for BC. Not positive about how the
genetics would play out for crosses though. Mine was
in the settled state and clearly reverted to a streaker form so the genes are obviously there. Mine only made one scape and that was from a streaked eye. Is it possible that
it loses it's fertility when settled?

Curtis/m2m

As Pollen Donor X William Lachman

As Pod Parent

Breeder's Choice divisions from the settled plant

Had an unexpected occurance tonite when I got home from
work. Seventh Heaven had a fully opened bud that was ready to pollinate ... at 7PM. Luckiy I had saved some pollen
from the last flower of Montana Aureomarginata. Hope it was still potent.

Is this a normal occurance for a Hosta to have nite time blooms?

SH has beautiful flowers .... the thickest of any I've seen yet ... and they are indeed fragrant. Yesterdays first bud had little fragrnace but this one was very sweet.

gootziecat · Post by **gootziecat** » Jul 30, 2006 11:27 pm

Curtis, I notified the seller of the error and was compensated as he didn't have Breeder's Choice. It was still a disappointment.

gootziecat

dmi188 · Post by **dmi188** » Jul 31, 2006 6:55 am

Curtis, yes, 7th heaven always opens in the evening. I think this is fairly common with the fragrant ones.

marriedtomud · Post by **marriedtomud** » Jul 31, 2006 8:54 am

Morning

Gootziecat ... sounds as thought he seller did all that he could do. Try the method I did and see what happens or just enjoy it as BE and try again to reorder Breeder's Choice. This is my first effort with BC but I've heard and read good things about it. I really can't understand the non-fertility other than outside forces like Mother Nature. Maybe too hot or humid right now. Find a Hosta that is producing pods and do a double cross with your BE as a
fertility test.

Denise ... I'm thinking this might be an analomy to Seventh Heaven as the other fragrant bloomers here all bloom in the morning. Fried Green Tomatos had his first too flowers to open and they were wide open by dawn. Similar to SH in size and very fragrant. Fragrant Blue also flowers early.

Maraschino Cherry is one that puzzles me with flower time. The flowers look as though they're barely open yet every day a pod forms with the cross. I've not seen really a lot of pollen development yet either but in all fairness MC is a recent addition here and could perform much better next season.

The pods are mounting up.

Curtis/m2m

PS Denise ... I'm really sorry to hear about your Son's
appendix surgery. Best wishes for a fast recovery.

Jaspersail · Post by **Jaspersail** » Jul 31, 2006 11:50 am

Looks like you're having fun, Curtis!

Another way to mark crosses is to write the pollen donor's name on a small section of twist-tie and then crimp it around the stem or pedicel. It's fast, easy, and you don't have dozens of jeweler tags flapping in the wind, getting tangled, and potentially knocking off pods. Also, the crimped-on tag stays in place even if the pod aborts, so you know which crosses didn't work.

I have better pics at home, but this is the only one I could find on my work computer.

--John

marriedtomud · Post by **marriedtomud** » Jul 31, 2006 12:38 pm

Hi John
Good to hear from you. How bout them Tigers!
Now if only the Lions can show that kind of improvement.

I have to give thanks to John for giving me the biggest of boosts in my decision to try hybridizing. Last season he let me be involved me in the choosing of pollen donors for some crosses and then sent me the seeds.
How cool is that.

Misty Gold just made her first flowers a few days ago. She's been in pollen rotation pretty heavily.

Your wire tie method makes a ton of sense John. I ordered tags and used a few and they did ecactly what you said. The wind tangled them in the other pods ... they probably work better indoors. I'm at the stage where masking tape on the crosses that took seemed like the most stable way
for the rest of this season ... the symbols on some leaves are barely readable now. I'll definately be trying your wire tie. I'm thinking each wire tie can have a number that
could be kept in a journal with all the info deemed pertinent in addition to a bit of info on the pollen donor on the wire tie itself.

Does the wire tie work well in an flower cluster? There seems to be a profusion of short scaped flower laden Hostas like Halycon & Paradice Joyce that have almost no distance between flowers on their scapes.

LOL ... Since you're here John ... what method do you use for saving pollen for short and for long terms?

Thanks for the wire tie tip ... I am having a lot of fun.

Curtis/m2m

Misty Gold (from John)

dmi188 · Post by **dmi188** » Jul 31, 2006 3:25 pm

Love the Misty Gold!
Think the bees got tired of my meddling...got stung this morning.

It wasn't bad then, but now the whole back of my upper arm is red.
Curtis, I am saving pollen in gel caps. My local natural health store carries them. I either stick a small label on, or write directly on them after closing. (someone here recommended it last year...as usual my nearly 50 yr old brain doesn't remember who to give credit to...sorry)

Jaspersail · Post by **Jaspersail** » Jul 31, 2006 4:00 pm

<<I'll definately be trying your wire tie. I'm thinking each wire tie can have a number that could be kept in a journal with all the info deemed pertinent in addition to a bit of info on the pollen donor on the wire tie itself. >>

Yeah, the more info you store the better: fresh or frozen pollen, the high day temperature, humidity levels, etc. All this info could lead you to discover trends that help you and others.

I usually just record the pollen parent name/initials ("AS" for 'Atom Smasher, "KD" for 'Komodo Dragon", "Hak" for 'Hakuyo', etc), but I try to also record the date when I get near the top of the scape. That way I can tell how long the last pods have had to develop (in case I want to cut the scape off early and finish it in sugar water).

<<Does the wire tie work well in an flower cluster? There seems to be a profusion of short scaped flower laden Hostas like Halycon & Paradice Joyce that have almost no distance between flowers on their scapes. >>

Good question! That can be tricky with any labeling method. Yes, it works fine but you do have to be careful to not knock off other buds when getting in to crimp. The most problematic one for me is 'Sea Prize' because it has very short pedicels and it flowers in clusters. The twist ties sometimes end up crimping a portion of the pod, but it doesn't seem to affect the development of seeds.

<<LOL ... Since you're here John ... what method do you use for saving pollen for short and for long terms?>>

I'm in the tinfoil camp. I scrape all the fresh pollen onto tinfoil (about the size of a dollar bill), let it dry, and then mop it up with a Qtip. The Qtip can then be folded up in the tinfoil, frozen, and later used as a convenient applicator. I write the pollen parent name and date of harvest on the outside of the tinfoil packet with a sharpie.

If you're going to use pollen within a week or so, you can store it in the fridge, but for long-term storage, keep it in the freezer. It is important that the pollen be dry before storing it though -- moisture can ruin it.

Go Tigers!

--John

DBoweMD · Post by **DBoweMD** » Jul 31, 2006 4:11 pm

I've been using that same green wire crimping label for the past 4 years. It works great, just be sure you use permanent marker. They have to be the paper covered wire, as the writing will fade on plastic fast.

I cut each green twist tie into 4 pieces and stock pile them all year. When I crimp it is like a "J" shape, only about 1/3 of the tag wraps around the pedicel. I also write an abbreviation. CRCR is cracker crumbs. ADG is Abiqua Drinking Gourd. Venu is Venusta, Vent is ventricosa.

Leafy does the gel cap method.

marriedtomud · Post by **marriedtomud** » Aug 01, 2006 4:59 pm

The temps are near 100 here today. I'm thankful that the hybridizing gets done by sunup .... well most of it.

Seventh Heaven & Fried Green Tomatos both had no open flowers this morning but by 2PM in the heat on midday they both opened. SH with one and FGT with two. All the outside pollen had either been consumed or wilted away. I had some Montana Auroemarginata pollen stored that I used for SH and one of the flowers on FGT. The second FGT got a cross from SH and I stored the rest of his pollen for tomorrow morning. Both of these Hostas make amazing flowers for appearance and fragrance. You could tell immediately that FGT was open when you entered the back garden.

Ken Marek emailed about watching and recording the fertility drop with the high heat. Luckily most of the Hostas
I'm hybridizing with are on the much cooler shady side of the house. The others may get moved there before long.

Lachman had the most open flowers yet today ... a baker's dozen. Kabitan finally opened a flower but the pollen was minimal ... hopefully better tomorrow. Tomorrow should also see floweres on Red Dragon & Bullseye. Scapes are forming on Aphrodite & Small Sun.

I'm still open to suggestions for crosses.

Curtis/m2m

Flowers formed on Bullseye

New Scapes ...
Small Sum

Aphrodite

The first week of crosses on a Lachman scape.
Crossed with Montana Aureomarginata ... Guardian Angel ... Niagra Falls Seedling ... Korean Minor ... Blue mini seedling ... Whirlwind ... and Faithful Heart

Montana Aureomarginata ... made a pod for every day.

marriedtomud · Post by **marriedtomud** » Aug 03, 2006 5:45 am

Finally got a cooling night rain and a break from the oppressive heat.
Things were at meltdown point here. My sandy soil was baked like concrete.
Anything growing in full sun showed leaf damaged.

I did the early morning walk in the drizzle ... it felt wonderful to be out in it.

It's still raining this morning so no crosses til the rains let up.
This would be a good time to have a few select eyes potted up to bring indoors.

Red Dragon, Bullseye & Tenryu had open flowers this morning.

Lots of good crosses to go before seasons end.

Curtis/m2m

marriedtomud · Post by **marriedtomud** » Aug 03, 2006 8:20 pm

Royal Standard had a first bloom late this afternoon as Seventh Heaven did last week (Crossed with Inniswood). The fragrant ones open here now are four in total (these two plus Fragrant Blue & Fried Green Tomaots) with Aphrodite & Plantagenia yet to go.
Of all the Hostas the fragrant ones seem to have no set time for opening. From early mornings to late evenings they open whenever they're ready.

The flowers on FGT & RS are almost identical in shape. FGT has a hint of purple while RS is white. SH is just a bit thicker but similar in shape and fragrance to RS. Fragrant Blue's flower is smaller but just as fragrant. Of the four only FB has positively set seed and is making pods. He lost a few pods today (I'm blaming the week of heat) that had started to form earlier. I've crossed him a lot with Hostas (like Lakeside Cha Cha & Alligator Shoes) that don't show the best of pollen production. FB started out making pods with every cross and it seemed like a likely chance. They did all take but now a few have dropped the forming pods.
After today's cooling rain I'll try those same crosses again with stored pollen and see if I have better success with cooler temps.

I'm curious if anyone has gotten successful pods from either Seventh Heaven, Fried Green Tomatos or Royal Standard or has had successful crosses with their pollen.

Both Bullseye & Red Dragon held off on their first flower openings. Tenryu had a first open flower and was heavily used for pollen as was my green sport of Kabitan.

Between rain bouts I redid some of the cross markings on Lachman where the small leafs were starting to brown. Maraschino Cherry's as well. The masking tape is holding up amazingly well .... I could have kept using it from the first day had I known.

Curtis/m2m

First flower on Royal Standard ... crossed with Inniswood.
Love the large spacing between these flowers.

First rainy day cross ... WL X Golden Tiara ... The pod is streaked.

Crowded at the top ... Fragrant Blue

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dmi188 · Post by **dmi188** » Aug 03, 2006 9:27 pm

Curtis, I have one pod on 7th heaven. I believe it was the day I tried putting a bit of its own pollen on the outside, as was suggested here. Had been having no luck, so did not mark what the cross was.

marriedtomud · Post by **marriedtomud** » Aug 05, 2006 11:50 am

This morning saw first flowers open on Salute, Red Dragon (finally!), Pineapple Upside Down Cake and Wogon Gold. They all donated pollen for a multitude of crosses. August Moon is near the end of his flowering and today he made beautiful pollen so he got a lot of use also. Pineapple Poll & Tenryu have flowers with lots of space for access.

The extreme heat of the past week is showing up on most
of the scapes now. Not a single pod developed for the last week on Breeders Choice (he's in the sun) ... and even Golden Tiara (who takes with everything) was spotty on developing pods. Lachman (who's in shade) had much better success but even he lost a few crosses. Today was his slowest day in weeks ... only four flowers.

The early flowers continue to fall off of the large fragrants.
No crosses have taken yet. I'm hoping it's just the heat
and not a fertitility issue.

Afternoon openings for all the fragrants except Royal Standard. His look like they'll be open alter. Fragrant Blue made good pollen this afternoon for the first time since
opening. I'm wondering if the lower humidity and cooler temps played a role in that.

Curtis/m2m

Congrats on the Seventh Heaven pod Denise.