Hosta Virus X epidemic

Post by **Chris_W** » Aug 21, 2004 10:56 pm

janet wrote:If your older shipment of El Nino proves to be virus free, do you know who got which or do we just have to wait and see what our plants look like over time? I thought sometimes a virused plant could never show signs. Also, I received Paradise Joyce as a bonus with my El Nino. I should just trash that one now? They both look just terrific. So sad. Thank you so much for keeping us all informed...wish the other places I ordered from would do the same.

I should get the results of the latest El Nino tests by the end of the day Tuesday and will know more then.

Normally I would be able to tell who received the older plants by the order sequence, but our older El Nino were frosted once which made the newer ones look much better for a while. In the future I will track that MUCH better. Here at the nursery we keep track of different batches by using different tags or different pots.

I do have some older plants here and if they come back negative we will talk to our supplier to see if we can propagate them (they are PPAF so that normally wouldn't be allowed).

But I shouldn't even get our hopes up until we know for sure. I have 3 El Nino in my own garden that look terrific, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Yes, the bonus Paradise Joyce should be discarded.

I have a small batch of PJ from another grower that I will get tested and if they are negative I might one day offer them again. They too are patented but again I'll check into it.

Wish I knew more but I'll make the contacts next week once I have the final results.

Sorry

Chris

lazygardner · Post by **lazygardner** » Aug 22, 2004 5:09 am

Not your fault Chris and everyone here knows it. You do what you can to be the most honest and fairest of nurserymen. Can't ask more than that!

Trudy · Post by **Trudy** » Aug 22, 2004 10:50 am

Thanks for the info Trudy. How long have you had your Night Before Christmas? And do you know where it originated? (Sometimes the grower will have a distinct tag with the plant).

Chris,
I think we have had the NBC for at least two years maybe three. The plants came from a smaller nursery, and no they didnt have a growers tag in them.

Tundra_Queen · Post by **Tundra_Queen** » Aug 23, 2004 10:52 pm

chris,
I bought SS in a bag from Walmart this spring and I have been keeping an eye on them after this thread started.

Tonight I looked at them again and two had bumps on them in certain places so I dug them up and threw them in the garbage. I didn't want to take a chance they had the virus. I also threw the other 2 SS still in pots out, and a Francee, just in case it had the virus. It came from Walmart too.

The question I have is this: When I planted them I didn't know about the virus so I didn't use bleach on my trowel or shovel that I used to plant them. Can't remember which I used. The trowel has been outside for a few weeks and I have used it since planting the SS, would the virus disappear IF it was on the trowel just from being left outside without sitcking it in the bleach?

I really think I'm ok as the plants were all potted and I didn't use a trowel to pot the roots up months ago. I'm also hoping that I just used the trowel to dig the hole in the garden and just plunked them in the space without cutting into any roots.

Sorry about this post I'm not being very clear.
But my question is: After the trowel being outside exposed to rain for weeks now, would any sign of virus cells on the trowel be gone now without me using the bleach?

Thanks
Debbie

malaprop · Post by **malaprop** » Aug 23, 2004 11:51 pm

If this virus is like others (just some DNA/RNA wrapped up in a cell that has like a jelatinous covering that can't survive drying out ) it cannot live without a host healthy cell, that hasn't dried out.

If the covering of the cell gets dried out the virus along with the cell dies. In otherwords, the virus passes THRU from one damp cell to another damp cell to spread, so it's demanding in that sense.

And it can't spread to a dying cell or a weak cell. Clippers that just trimmed some scapes that contained the virus, then right away (still damp) continued trimming with uncontaminated stock could likely pass. With that in mind, tools that were dry would be unable to contain any live virus.

This is my understanding of viral behavior, FWIW! and why I think the odds favor TCing a virused donor.

Post by **Chris_W** » Aug 25, 2004 1:44 am

Well, we finally have some good news to report on the HVX battleground.

We had 4 additional samples of Night Before Christmas tested and none had HVX. Strangely enough one sample did contain spherical virus particles that Dr. Lockhart was not able to identify, but this seems to be a random occurence on one plant and not an entire batch of plants as has been the case with Hosta Virus X. The original positive result of HVX in Night Before Christmas reported to me by a customer must have been from some unknown vector because our plant stock does not appear to have this virus.

We tested 3 plants of El Nino from our 2003 plant stock and they all tested negative for HVX. So anyone who purchased that plant in 2003 should have a clean plant. For 2004 we do not know if you were shipped a plant from the new or old plant stock, so it would either be best to destroy it or send out a leaf to be tested. Either way I will give credit for El Nino purchased this season.

Other plants we tested were Tattoo, Winter Lightning, Allegan Fog, Lacy Belle, Stained Glass, Patriot, Majesty, Antioch, and Undulata Univittata. All tested negative.

The final plant we had tested was Revolution. We currently have plant stock from 4 different growers, and we have them sorted out in batches so we know which plants were from which grower. Plants from 3 growers tested negative for the virus but one plant from the 4th grower tested positive. If you purchased Revolution and your plant has a tall tag with a dark blue background then it was from Van Bloem Gardens and may have the virus. I will remove the bad batch and then re-test additional samples to be certain that we have the problem sorted out.

So this was a good week for us. 22 samples tested, one contained HVX, one an unknown virus, and another plant (Gilt By Association) which had extremely strange patterns also tested postive for a virus, although I totally expected that one and was destroying it anyway. I will send in other samples of Gilt By Association to make sure it was an isolated case.

Let me know if you have any questions about the latest findings.

Take care everyone,

Chris

malaprop · Post by **malaprop** » Aug 25, 2004 3:36 am

Hi Chris--your efforts and candor much appreciated--I'm more confident buying from your stock, knowing the precautions you've taken.

I sent a couple off to Dr. Lockhart today to be checked--one if it comes out + , I'll really be surprised as this Gold Standard I've had for 5 ? years and has been healthy.

Right after I sent them, I spotted another I should have included! Oh well.

barbara · Post by **barbara** » Aug 25, 2004 7:05 pm

Well, I am totally interested in the result of Guilt by Association....not that mine shows anything, but this plant was purchased the same yr. from the same source (almost sure it was in the same shipment) as my Ginsu Knife which tested + for TRV....very interesting!

Riskey bud · Post by **Riskey bud** » Aug 29, 2004 12:29 pm

Sorry and I hope you don't mind my asking , but is the hosta virus a fatal type, or just one of those odd ones that causes odd markings and perhaps distorted growth. In other words, it won't affect your other plants, but if you're trying to give away , sell, or distribute the infected plants, they wouldn't look "true to type" or as advertised. Im not a fanatic collector , but do want to expect the plants will look the way they're supposed to and not infectious to others. I'm sorry to hear of your problem Chris and I've thought many times I'd like to have a retail plant nursery, but I've always been aware that bugs , diseases , etc. don't always make it an easy way to make a living. Best of luck with your efforts to rid yourself of the problem. Must be very upsetting!!! I guess those lily viruses can be real "blingers" too , especially if your're a lily specialist grower or even just selling a few varieties.

FreakyCola · Post by **FreakyCola** » Aug 29, 2004 4:57 pm

Chris, do you have to pay for all these tests? I'm just wondering what the costs of all this testing will do to the hosta market. The growers in Holland will surely have to pass it on to the consumer.

Other people have said Dr. Lockhart tests for free. When I called them they asked if I was a member of the NHS, which I thought was odd. Then they asked how I heard about them and I told them through this website. Later in the conversation the lady told me it would be $25 or $30 charge per plant. So I'm wondering if they test for free only if you're a member.

Chris, if you're paying $30 bucks a pop, I don't see how you can stay in business. If Dr. Lockhart isn't charging you now, I don't see how much longer he can do it at no charge. His testing supplies can't be cheap!

Post by **Chris_W** » Aug 29, 2004 5:30 pm

Hi Ellen,

I sent my samples directly to Dr. Ben Lockhart, Virus Testing Lab, Univ. of Minnesota. I used the same street address as the plant disease clinic, which is probably who you talked with, because they do charge for their services. This year Dr. Lockhart is testing all hostas for free, although I have made a donation too, but far less than if I had to pay for them.

I was also thinking that he won't be able to do it for free forever which is why I made the donation.

Put your leaf samples in individual plastic bags with no excess moisture. When my leaves were wet I wrapped them in dry paper towel to absorb the excess moisture. Keep track of what variety of hosta they are and from which plant you took samples from, and include a list for him so he knows what they are too so he can document it in his research.

Hope that helps.

Chris

morgansrgr8 · Post by **morgansrgr8** » Sep 01, 2004 12:42 am

Well I got the bad news. I sent in 4 samples of 4 different hosta to be checked. 2 positive. I have a large Gold Standard that tested positive. I dont remember it having looked funny before but then I never looked for it. Its a real looker. I had somebody stop and ask for a piece of it this year, but since I had read of the virus I told them of it and said I was having it tested before I would share any of it.
The other positive was my Strip Tease. It didn't really even look funny but I had it tested because Chris had said it was on the list to look for. They said that Strip Tease was fairly low but the Gold Standard was very high. I might have made it sick myself. I got it last year or the year before when the gold Standard looked fine. I was moving things around alot that year.
The one I thought was really sick turned out to be fine. September Sun. It looks worse every year. Must be the rodents making it unhappy. That cat had better get busy. The last I had tested was a streaked Gold Standard. It tested negative. So I have a nicely streaked Gold Standard that I need to move to a shadier spot but scared to move anything at this point. With most of my hosta new within the last 3 years I could have really made a mess of things. So no more new hosta for me unless I am absolutely positive that they are virus free. (when I get new hosta yours will be the first place I look)
And moving ANYTHING will be done with care.

I wish I could remember where I got those plants. I haven't kept any kind of a record. That is also something that will be changing. I just brought a few hosta home from our local hosta club auction. I will be keeping a close eye on them. I don't plan on testing any others, just keep an eye on things. I am thankful for the service that Ben Lockhart is doing and don't want to take advantage of his gracious offer. Best to spread the word and get just get the ones we really suspect tested. If I send more I will definely send a contribution with it.

Thankyou so very much for keeping us informed. The more information we are the less likely we will be to pass on an infected plant. I shudder to think I could have cut into that Gold Standard sharing my love of hosta (friendship plant) and made the problem that much harder to control.
It stinks that we cant even share what we love.

Linda

morgansrgr8 · Post by **morgansrgr8** » Sep 01, 2004 12:47 am

I did have one question tho. How about seeds? Can the virus be spread in their seed? Like Revolution. And the pollen? Can they spread the virus too?

OK so that was more than one.

wishiwere · Post by **wishiwere** » Sep 01, 2004 6:50 am

You know I wondered about that and never asked either Linda! Glad you did? Could this virus be spread through pollination? Geepers. Safe sex for hosta could be the next program here hey?

Maybe that why we never hear some people having this problem? Its the ones using the hostacondoms?

Post by **Chris_W** » Sep 01, 2004 9:06 am

Boy, I have no idea about that? Would be a good question for Dr. Lockhart. I'll try to ask with the next round of plants I send out to be tested.

Seedseller1 · Post by **Seedseller1** » Sep 01, 2004 9:20 am

Hey Morgansrgr8 and Wishiwere, I started to create a post to ask those very same questions, and deleted it before I fininshed. I decided that when Dr Lockart emails my testing results back, I'd have his email addy and pose the question to him. My guess is that HVX is not expressed in the pollen or seed (too dry?) or it would be a much bigger problem than it already is, thanks to the bees and us "breeder wannabes"

wishiwere · Post by **wishiwere** » Sep 01, 2004 9:48 am

Hmmmmmm..but doesn't the seed and/or pollen have fluid like most cells? Sorry, I have a background in medical, not plant cell, so I really don't remember back to the dark ages of plant cell class

Just a thought as the seed would dead if it's dry wouldn't it?

Thanks Chris. I was wondering, b/c I have yet to send in a couple leaves I am considering and one of those bloomed already with many flowers, but not pods

Seedseller1 · Post by **Seedseller1** » Sep 01, 2004 1:12 pm

These cells certainly would have fluid in them, but I understood that the HVX was transported by the "sap" in the plant tissue and my "swag" method of reasoning would be that the HVX prefers an enviornment like new tissue growth rather than that of a seed or pollen that would dry out. I'm just guessing here, and maybe my reasoning isn't even logical, but I hope I'm correct!

malaprop · Post by **malaprop** » Sep 01, 2004 1:23 pm

I don't believe either pollen or seed would be suitable hosts for any virus. In the case of seeds, it's not a genetic thing, for example.
mal

wishiwere · Post by **wishiwere** » Sep 01, 2004 1:50 pm

Hmmmmmm again. Interesting thoughts on this I suppose. I wasn't thinking genetic makeup really, but the fluid in the cell being produced or transferred to the new seed, but yes, you are right that wouldn't make sense now that I think it about it more. It would be producing the fluid within the cell, not transferring from the host cell! Hmmmmmmm...should be safe for sex for them then!

Yippee!