Blue Ivory vs First Frost

[felco2]

Hi Everybody,

It's winter research time for me. The Mid-Atlantic still has a lot of snow. We had two 100 year record snows. I have over 4 feet of snow and a lot of damaged trees and shrubs. So since I'm not outside raking, I have some time to look at pictures of hostas and make my wishlist.

I asked you all last winter to comment on Brother Stefan vs Paradigm. Turns out I found a Brother Stefan for sale and snapped it right up. I love it. Pictures do not do it justice.

This fall I found a First Frost. I liked its reputation for looking good right through the fall when other hostas are looking shabby.

I really like the pictures of Blue Ivory, but now I wonder if there is any real difference between Blue Ivory and First Frost. Is it true that Blue Ivory is a very slow grower?

Thanks, Felco2

[Chris_W]

Hi there,

So you are able to rake already, after all that snow? Wow, must have melted fast! I sure wish ours would go away soon..

First Frost and Blue Ivory are both related to Halcyon, but they are quite a bit different through the year. First Frost comes up with a creamy yellow to bright yellow margin and that edge ages to creamy white. Blue Ivory has more of a cream to white margin, and it is a lot wider than First Frost. Because Blue Ivory has such a wide white edge it does grow a little slower than other Halcyon relatives, though not as slow as Remember Me.

Blue Ivory's margin can "green up" from the heat of the summer and when it is grown in a container. In the ground here they haven't done that, planted in a very shady, cool location, but I've seen it in sunnier gardens and very often in pots. First Frost doesn't ever do that. At the end of the year they might have similar colorations, with First Frosts margin turning more creamy white, but the margin width will always set them apart.

Blue Ivory is more similar to El Nino, but again, the margins are different widths and the clump size of Blue Ivory will likely stay smaller than El Nino.

I think you bring up a good point, though. There are a lot of margined forms of Halcyon out there and yes, they are similar. Most act subtly different through the year but kind of end up looking the same at some point in time...

Hope that helps

Chris

[redcrx]

Hi, I'm in southern New Jersey which probably gets similar weather to where you are. We just missed getting smashed by the fourth storm of the season (only got 4 inches). The combo of the second (24 inches) and third storm (6 inches, 12 hours of rain, another 6 inches) just 4 days apart took down a large cedar tree on my front lawn and put it across my driveway. (The first storm in late December gave us 30 inches.)

Here is my First Frost - totally different look between 08 and 09:

First Frost July 2008 - when I go it

First Frost May 2009

First Frost late September 2009

Here is Blue Ivory but this is its first year in my yard so I don't have a timeline yet:

Blue Ivory August 2009

Here is El Nino during its first year in my year:

El Nino late June 2009

Looks like First Frost when I first got it. Can't wait to see what it looks like this season.

[ViolaAnn]

Is it just the picture above or has Blue Ivory become slug bate? Is it more prone to slug damage than some of the others?
Ann

[felco2]

Hi,

Thank you Chris and New Jersey for the pictures and advice. I love wide margins so I will be in the market for Blue Ivory.

Sorry to hear about your cedar. I have lost a lovely and expensive Orangeola Japanese Maple and a Carol Macknie daphne that was gorgeous. Most of it was crushed. I bet it's still alive but I don't know how to prune it to get it to recover its basic shape.

Felco2

[redcrx]

Hi Ann, my Blue Ivory got beat up somehow - I don't think it was slug damage. We will see this season. It's planted in an "odd" spot - it's near the bird feeders so it may be bird and animal activity around it.

[mooie]

IMHO, El Nino beats them both hands down!

mooie

[Roxanne]

Hi! Haven't been to forums in awhile, but read this post. I can't get why you are so worried about choosing between similar cultivars, Blue Ivory, First Frost, El Nino.......
When you started out with saying you chose between 'Paradigm' and 'Brother Stefan' .
Both are distinctly different, and I would have both, even in a small Hosta garden.
Chris gave great info on the Halycon sports. I do like 'El Nino' the best, but it's been around longer, my plant is bigger, so my opinion reflects that.
Rox

[felco2]

Hi Mooie,

So what does El Nino have that the other two lack?

Also why choose? Limits in available space. I love hostas, but I'm not a collector so I choose carefully.

Felco2

[kaylyred]

So what does El Nino have that the other two lack?

I'd be interested to learn the answer to this question, too. They do look very similar to me in the photos I've seen, but it's hard to tell much about substance or growth rate just looking at pictures. Chris did say above that Blue Ivory's clump size will likely stay smaller than El Nino's, but that's the only difference I saw noted in this thread.

For me, the one with a decent growth rate and the widest and whitest margins would likely be my choice. I have the perfect spot in dappled shade all picked out for the right hosta. Now I just have to decide which of the blue/white margin Halcyon relatives it will be.

[Chris_W]

I think it is just that El Nino is so carefree and vigorous. Blue Ivory seems to be a little picky about placement. Too much heat and the margins green up a lot, and I've also seen plants with melted out edges - not sure if it was too much constant water, not enough, or maybe just a little transplant shock. Some Blue Ivory are stunning though, and I wouldn't give up on it.

First Frost is a nice plant - I like the seasonal color changes - but to be honest, I was quite surprised it was voted as a hosta of the year. Heck, I didn't even have it in production when I found that out since I was focusing my attention back on El Nino and Blue Ivory First Frost always sold well, but I also have limited space and resources to grow things, so I really try to keep a good selection without too much overlap of things (not that it still doesn't happen...).

The only thing I would like to warn about El Nino is there are many plants out there of El Nino carrying HVX. It has been tissue cultured here in the US from clean stock now, but imported Dutch hostas should still be considered infected until proven otherwise.

[R. Rock]

Hi,
In my zone and conditions are highly recomend "First Frost' because of how easy it is to grow. It grows like a weed here. Mine grow at three times the rate of 'El Nino' and 'Blue Ivory'.
Last year was the first year I gave 'El Nino' recognition, I had three of them in the ground side by side for 4 yrs from a decent size plant before I was impressed. The blue on 'El Nino' is more silvery baby blue. 'First Frost' is a little deeper blue and not so silver. However, stunning.

As Chris noted, a good 'Blue Ivory' will leave you gasping!

I think there are some 'El Nino' out there that are actually what 'Blue Ivory' is supposed to be.

A friend of mine has a 'El Nino', which it was labeled. However, it is not. The margins are really wide and a beautiful creamy white. The "cream" is so rich! Perhaps what 'Blue Ivory' is supposed to be. She has a few hundred hosta around there. This one definetly takes the show.

I would put the plant she has, in the top five out of thousand hosta or better.

[Chris_W]

Yes, I think there are definitely some El Nino out there with wider margins. We saw several like that years ago when we first grew El Nino. Blue Ivory is a selection of El Nino with a particularly wide margin.

I've been searching through my pictures to find ones of both these and haven't found them yet...

[redcrx]

Just out of curiousity what's your opinion on Great Escape. I was going through my photos and this looks similar as a young plant anyway.

Great Escape 5/14/2009

Great Escape 8/27/2009

In this next photo in the top right a small Blue Ivory is at the top and a small Great Escape is on the right.
Teatime, English Sunrise, and First Frost are the others.

[R. Rock]

Hi Ed,
'Blue Ivory' and 'Great Escape' are the same plant. One from here in the states, one from Europe.

On another note, I tried posting my 'El nino'. I can't get the size small enough, even if I put them in as "best" for web viewing. It's a bummer. I had a lot of pictures to show.

[redcrx]

Then why the heck (explicative modified) would vendors offer the same plant with different names at different prices. Or is this "buyer beware".

Or is it a similar looking plant sport of Halcyon - like Pole Cat & White Line Fever & White Bikini (& Risky Business & Lapdance & etc.).

[R. Rock]

Hi,
I understand your frustration.
The second part of your question/statement is true.
I can offer this from a vendor that had both: "possibly the same plant as 'Blue Ivory' "
As for other vendors; I am not sure.
New names sell.

It seems, I had read somewhere that two of the largest tissue culture labs here in the states were both allowed to register and introduce the same plant under two different names.

I consider these also identical:
Avacodo-Holy Mole
Sum of All-Titanic
Princess Anastasia-Bright Lights
Dream Queen-Dream Weaver
St. Paul-Paradise Glory
There are more; these are just off the top

[thehostagourmet]

I have yet to see a picture of 'Blue Ivory,' which I don't own, that has anywhere near the creamy yellow margin with soft blue interior that makes 'First Frost' unique for the first part of the season.

[redcrx]

Sorry Nut House, I forgot to mention IrfanView for resizing photos: http://www.irfanview.com/
Just go to the "File" tab and pick "Open" - browse to your photo, go to the "Image" tab and pick "Resize/Resample"
and pick the resolution - usially 640 X 480 pixels works pretty well.
Be sure to save with a different name - June.jpg -> Junesmall.jpg for example. You may want to keep the better resolution for publishing.

[SWMOgardens]

Nuthouse, I use photobucket. They give you an option to automatically size your photos when they are uploaded onto photobucket. I load mine to fit a 15 inch screen.