thoughts on landscape cloth?

[supercat]

I have a large bed in which I have some "someday will be much larger" hostas. Due to time considerations (i.e. lack of time to weed regularly), we are thinking about putting down landscape cloth under the mulch to keep down the number of weeds. Any pros or cons here? how far from hosta stems should the cloth be? etc.

[Chris_W]

In general it is best to keep the landscape cloth at least one mile away. Perhaps two miles. Wait, how far away is the hardware store? Keep it there.

Landscape cloth is absolutely not recommended for perennial gardens. It inhibits soil aeration, doesn't allow organics to percolate down from the decaying mulch, and it really does a terrible job at keeping weeds down too. The mulch does a better job alone. You can always spot spray with roundup, heck even a little preen can help more than the cloth, just don't overdo it with either chemical.

Everyone I know who has ever tried fabric in perennial gardens has regretted it.

Chris

[jgh]

I've spent hours today digging out weeds anchored in landscape fabric... a creation of the devil...

[BackerBunch]

Everyone I know who has ever tried fabric in perennial gardens has regretted it.

Chris

I'm a member of that club. The only reason we use landscape cloth now is to place between the block and dirt so it won't wash out when it rains. And sometimes it doesn't even help then if it's too much rain.

[thy]

Do you have a lot of old papers ?

They can do the trick for some years and do not harm anyting

[supercat]

More ammo please - I am not in favor of it, but DH is absolutely convinced it is the answer. Since I will be gone for most of June and he will have the weeding and watering duties... I really need to convince him that it is not a good idea.

[jgh]

I've used it many places - and it was worthless under the best circumstances and a disaster in others.

I used it under cobblestone-type paths - now when weeds do sprout in the cracks, they grow down through the fabric, making them almost impossible to pull - the fabric actually helps the weeds get established by collecting dirt and moisture and then providing the anchor that makes weeding impossible.

Same thing happens in the perennial bed. Weed seeds collect in the mulch, lay on top of the nice, damp fabric... sprout up, send fine roots down through the fabric. If the fabric wasn't there, the weeds could be pulled or dug - the fabric prevents that - roundup is about the only alternative at that point.

I wish I'd taken pictures the other day - I'm refurbishing a large bed that was originally planted with a complete fabric cloth cover, then 1 foot diameter holed cut through for planting the hostas. Each hosta I dug up had fabric cloth running through the center of the crown... each crown had to be dismantled as I ripped piece after piece of that verdamnt demonic product out of them. I thought about this topic but didn't have my camera in my pocket...

So... let's see... it doesn't do what they claim it does, it doesn't do anything good, it does bad stuff as Chris stated, and harbors weed seeds, it provides a medium for seed germination, and it is mechanically an incredible pain in the butt... and you get to pay for the privilege of ripping it all out over the next few years. Is that enough testimony?!

Tell DH that if he must have a layer, it should be 2-4 layers of wet newspaper. It will work for a while, then deteriorate harmlessly, unlike the landscape fabric.

[Linda P]

Here's one more in the 'nay' column. Our garden club took over the maintainance of the local library grounds. We spent two years ripping the stuff out of all the planting beds. Tree and shrub roots had grown OVER it, and then anchored into it in some places. We had to wrest it from the grasp of the feeder roots that had attached to it from top and bottom both. There was an area of spirea, iris, daylily and hosta plantings. All of them had spread out and overgrown the landscape fabric. We ended up digging up every single plant and replanting it all once we got the landscape cloth scraped off the roots. There was a row of beautiful boxwoods which were nearly strangled by the stuff, and they have never quite recovered. We had to remove several bushes that were strangled and died.
If you do use it, you'll have about one summer of it looking nice, and then the weed problem so aptly described by jgh will begin.
ANother issue? Even though the stuff is supposed to allow the earth to breathe, it doesn't do that very well. In EVERY place where we removed the fabric, the ground under it was slimy when wet, brick-like when dry, and packed down and not conducive to good plant growth. There were a few spots where the soil was downright sour.
So...use the newspapers, or just a good layer of mulch. That will get him through the time you are away, and you won't be using up all the energy it takes to put it down and later tear it up, along with all the cuss words you have to use when you are trying to dig those weeds out of the stuff.

Linda P

[Tigger]

Under a path or a patio ONLY, I would consider ONLY the copper-impregnated stuff (one trade name is SpinOut), which stops roots. They hit the fabric and turn away, which means if they're growing on top they wont get attached to the fabric. It is not easy to find.

Never, never, never in a planting bed with perennials. I'm trying to think of a good analogy for how spending stupid money and a few frustrating hours getting the stuff to "fit" pays you back with suffering (both you and the plants, in the not-too-long run).

Maybe this: your dog is dirty, and you hate washing the dog. So you pour five gallons of bubble bath into your swimming pool and throw the dog in. He paddles around for a while, and jumps our remarkably clean. But of course the dog only stays clean for a few weeks and you have a swimming pool full of useless water.

Bad idea.

[supercat]

Much thanks all - I have successfully convinced DH that the landscaping cloth is not a good idea!!

[JaneG]

Whew, I'm glad he was convinced! My hubby still thinks using landscape fabric is the "proper" way to make a garden!!

I gave in and let him put it under the rocks in front of the porch. Now, as the bushes there get bigger and the crowns of the hosta spread, each spring I have to go out and clip back any landscape fabric that is getting too close to the stems of the plants. I use the blower to keep debris from settling in the rocks and making a nice starting medium for weeds on top of the fabric.

EVERYTHING that EVERYONE said is TRUE, TRUE, TRUE. Landscape Fabric . . . . BAD, BAD, BAD!!!

[scootersbear]

Another reason, found out the hard way. Put cloth down and spent a lot of money for mulch. Hard wind blew a few weeks later and mulch went along with it just like a slip and slide. Wind catches cloth and becomes a kite (yes it was staked down but we all know it tears easier than you can cut it with scissors) carrying along with it more mulch. Had to spend more money and time buying mulch and getting rid of the slip and slide cloth. The bed right next to it I didn't put any cloth down because I was afraid to get poked to death by the huge yuccas so I just put the mulch right on the ground and very little of it blew away. The moisture in the soil held it down. Although the soil under the cloth was moist the cloth was dry as a bone. Just don't do it. I've had good luck with newspapers. They seem to last long enough to were it's time to replace the mulch and don't do any harm.

[viktoria]

As if you weren't all convinced already, here's my two cent's worth:

The ABSOLUTELY only place I would use it is on a bank where all other ways to control erosion failed, but haven't actually tried that yet.

Trying to garden where landscape cloth has been laid is like trying to garden in wall to wall carpeting. That is, WTWG with weeds!

Viktoria

[kaylyred]

The owners of my house in the mid-80s were BIG fans of landscape fabric. I am still yanking the stuff out of my beds as I dig. I find it everywhere. And I agree wholeheartedly--it's the devil's own cheap trick to "block weeds." (The quotes around "block weeds" denote sarcasm.)

I'd much rather be pulling weeds than trying to yank out the landscape fabric that's trying to choke my plants.