How do you pronounce Tokudama Flavocircinalis?

[Don Rawson]

I've always said Tokudama Flavocir- kinalis with a "k" sound, but one of my hosta friends says Tokudama Flavocir- sinalis with an "s" sound. So who's right?

[Linda P]

I don't know who is right, but I use the 's' sound. I've heard Mr. Zilis say it that way also.
For me, it's easier to say it with the soft c rather than the hard one anyway.

Linda P

[Tigger]

In botanical (anglicized) Latin, a "c" before e or i is an "s" sound. A "c" before a, o, or u is a "k" sound. So it's flah-vo-seer-sin-al-is.
The same rule applies to "g" giving either a (soft) "j" sound or a (hard) "g" sound.
Odd twist: the letter combinations "ae" and "oe" are both pronounced as e, and so are treated in the above rule as e and i. As in [allium] caeruleum and [eupatorium] coelestinum. (both start with an "s" sound)

Note that even good botanists will sometimes get crossed up with the various ways of pronouncing Latin, so don't sweat it. In classical Latin, all c's and g's were hard. In church (Italianate) Latin, the soft "c" is a "ch" sound.

[irawon]

Thanks for the interesting lesson in latin pronunciation, Tigger! Another pronunciation question...how do you pronounce "Heuchera", a favourite hosta companion? I believe the the word is of German origin and therefore, I believe, the "ch" should have the German gutteral pronounciation of the German "ich" ("I" in English). Most people I know tend to pronounce the "ch" with a "k" sound. It's not a big deal, just curious.

[isadora]

I believe it is pronounced Hu-ker-a, according to a small plant pronunciation book I acquired some years ago. Also according to the dictionary, named for German botanist Heucher.

[Tigger]

A very good question, irawon. In theory, botanical names derived from personal names should be pronounced so that the name of origin is recognizable as such. Easy enough for Siebold --> sieboldiana, not so bad for Fortune --> 'Fortunei' ("for-toon-ee-eye" or "for-tyoon-ee-eye" or even "for-choon-ee-eye"), etc. You'll get into fights over forsythia if you know that William Forsyth pronounced his name as for-sithe with a long I. Then we get faced with foreign names, like Heucher. Johann Heinrich von Heucher was German, so the "eu" is an "oy" as in Freud, so the plant name is closer to "hoy-ker-uh" than anything else (with that mad kitty "ch" sound as you mentioned).

God help us all when faced with [clematis] maximowicziana! There has to be a limit to how many languages one is expected to recognize and know how to pronounce!

[isadora]

And then there is Kalanchoe......Ka-lan-ko-ee. Pronouce it that way at any garden center and you get this really weird look.....as if it's YOU who are retarded and don't know how to say it!

[SWMOgardens]

You say LEER-EE-O-PEE, I say LI-RYE-O-PEE. I used to pronounce Paradigm as PAR-A-DIDJUM, until a friend said "it's PAR-A-DIME" and the boy am I stupid light bulb lit in my head. I still don't think I pronounce EUONYMUS correctly.

[thy]

How I hated Latin in school
No one really knows how Latin was pronounced, so the rule in Latin is no pronountion at all, that said the horticurals have their own way to pronounce plants name and use pressure
Heuchere is in Latin heu-che-ra but horticural it is HEU-che-ra here, no K sound in both and ... che could be a short form of your female "she" - it is pronounced the same way.
Here we tend to give even strange Polish names a Latin touch.. sometimes it sounds a bit funny.
Ch is mostly like yours and C is mostly like a K

Confused... just like the rest of us

[irawon]

Interesting answers. And more interesting questions.So, I think that anyone who speaks German would agree that in order to pronounce the "ch" in "Heuchera" you open your mouth wide with teeth apart and exhale.

[thy]

Exactly
Forget the German for now

Brittish English is a mix of several old sorts of languages: Latin, Nordic(Danish), German and the locals
Your lousy gramma you have from the Vikings... just a few rules with a lot of ecepts... driving the others crazy

[renaldo75]

Don't forget the French addition to English, Pia.

I've been reading a series of fictional historical books called The Saxon Tales
so I have a much better understanding of you darned Danes invading England now.
[Bernard Cornwall is the author - "The Last Kingdom" is the 1st book in the series.]

[thy]

UPS Sorry, you are right and the French (Normanic to talk old time) invation in UK is very important to Brittish history

Those books are great, lent them by my son.. you can say they are a bit autentic about a battle No fairy tail stories there.
Cute Danes.. don't you think
We may have learned the brittish to conquire
Our first written history is Saxo, we know it is not true, but do not know the truth.
a
An other not all true but fun way to learn about that periode is in Hal Fosters comic strips Prince Valiant. Lots of Danes have become good grades in history thanks to him

[renaldo75]

Not having been there [nor wanting to be] I'd say his battle scenes are probably as accurate as any you'll find.
No sugar coating of 'history' at all. I'm a big fan of both of the Ragnars!! And Uhtred of course.

[thy]

You better have to come here for one or more for the Viking scenarios ..
Please bring me.. I have never been to one

Middle ages, yes, but Viking no and some of them are going on from I was a child)

He is exelent in the feeling of beeing in the front wall....
And as you said, you have feling on both sides.

There are lots of great books out there about the peiode, do not know the English names, but ask for Jan Guiillois ( rather new and a bit later) or Eric the Red (exploring the US).. or go the hard way,, the Island sagaes, they are exelent and very special

[renaldo75]

Thanks, Pia.